GPU Installation

[Flapjacks]

Hey, so I tried to install a new GPU earlier (my first time trying this) but never got a signal to the monitor, no picture at all. I opened it back up again to make sure all the connections were good and they were. Cable was plugged into the GPU slot (not the motherboard), I saw a red light on the GPU so it was getting power. I took it out and put the old one back in and it works just as it did before. Any suggestions on what I can do?

Edited February 26, 2024 by Flapjacks

[kksnowbear]

What kind of GPU (both old and new) please?

Not all GPUs show a light when they have power. Specifically, some have LED indicators when they're not plugged in properly. Some have different colors that mean different things. Some are on when the machine is off, and turn off when the machine is on.

What motherboard? Does it have the 4 "boot sequence" LED indicators or one of the numerical displays?

[Flapjacks]

12 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

What kind of GPU (both old and new) please?

Not all GPUs show a light when they have power. Specifically, some have LED indicators when they're not plugged in properly. Some have different colors that mean different things. Some are on when the machine is off, and turn off when the machine is on.

What motherboard? Does it have the 4 "boot sequence" LED indicators or one of the numerical displays?

Old GPU is a RTX 2060 and new one is RTX 4070 Super. Board is ASRock H310CM-HDV. Not sure about the rest. 

[unlikely_spider]

As a veteran PC builder I've had a couple embarrassing incidents where the DisplayPort connector wasn't fully "clicked" into the port. Make sure it's all the way in.

Edit - also, what's your PSU?

Edited February 26, 2024 by unlikely_spider

[kksnowbear]

1 minute ago, unlikely_spider said:

As a veteran PC builder I've had a couple embarrassing incidents where the DisplayPort connector wasn't fully "clicked" into the port. Make sure it's all the way in.

LOL Yup, that too    

[Flapjacks]

17 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

As a veteran PC builder I've had a couple embarrassing incidents where the DisplayPort connector wasn't fully "clicked" into the port. Make sure it's all the way in.

Edit - also, what's your PSU?

 

Apex AL-D500EXP Also says Model no: SL-8500BTX

Edited February 26, 2024 by Flapjacks

[kksnowbear]

26 minutes ago, Flapjacks said:

Old GPU is a RTX 2060 and new one is RTX 4070 Super. Board is ASRock H310CM-HDV. Not sure about the rest. 

Not to be a pain, but we'd need to know the exact manufacturer/model to determine what the GPU LEDs indicate, please.

And yes, the power supply as wel.  To be clear: Do you have extra PCIe power connectors plugged into the GPU?

I looked, albeit quickly, at the motherboard manual.  Doesn't indicate you have the on board boot LEDs.  Unfortunate, since they can help...but, anyway...

Any noise (beeps, with both old and new card)?  Often, boards that don't have LEDs will beep if there's a boot failure - but there has to be a buzzer/speaker installed.  A few boards had speakers on the board, but more common there are just header pins near the front panel headers.

[Flapjacks]

2 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

Not to be a pain, but we'd need to know the exact manufacturer/model to determine what the GPU LEDs indicate, please.

And yes, the power supply as wel.  To be clear: Do you have extra PCIe power connectors plugged into the GPU?

I looked, albeit quickly, at the motherboard manual.  Doesn't indicate you have the on board boot LEDs.  Unfortunate, since they can help...but, anyway...

Any noise (beeps, with both old and new card)?  Often, boards that don't have LEDs will beep if there's a boot failure - but there has to be a buzzer/speaker installed.  A few boards had speakers on the board, but more common there are just header pins near the front panel headers.

the new GPU is from Asus. The only connector was the one from the PSU and I might have heard a very faint beeping. I'll have to re-install it later on and have a listen to make sure. 

[kksnowbear]

A 4070 Super is a 220 W GPU.  That's just the GPU; the rest of the system could go 200-300 watts.

Your PSU is (just being honest) not the highest quality, and it's rated 500W *max* (480 is more accurate, and it probably wouldn't do that continuously).

So it's possible - not to jump to conclusions - but it's possible the PSU isn't able to provide enough power to the GPU.

Who made the GPU/what model, please?  It should say on the box what the recommended power supply is.

[kksnowbear]

Asus makes several different 4070 Super models, but a quick look indicates that the recommended PSU would be something like 750W.  Your PSU is 500W on a good day, when it was brand new, with a tail wind - and only then for so-called 'peak' output (meaning *very* short duration).  It's total output is actually 480W, and I *really* doubt it would do that continuously.

Also has to do with 'ambient' temp at the PSU's intake.  Put it in a closed case, upstairs in a warm room during summer...well...

Good PSUs will deliver their rated output, continuously, and at a given temp (usually at least 30c and more often 40-50c or 86-122F).

Now, they often "over-recommend" PSUs since the GPU they sell is only part of a system, and that system could be loaded with God-knows-what.  So there *might* be a little slack there, but I would suggest it wise to follow their recommendations.

Any chance you can try a different PSU?

 

Also - further to the PSU discussion:  It looks as if the Asus 4070 uses what's called a "12VHPWR" connector; that's two rows of 6 larger pins each, and a row of 4 small pins on the side.

Since I'm guessing there's almost no way your PSU has this type of connector, that means you're using one of the "octopus" multi-legged adapters for power...is that correct?

Like below, or different?

null

Edited February 27, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Flapjacks]

I didn't see anything about recommend power on the box but yes I was using an adapter that came with it. Guess I'll have to buy a new PSU.

[unlikely_spider]

20 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

A 4070 Super is a 220 W GPU.  That's just the GPU; the rest of the system could go 200-300 watts.

Your PSU is (just being honest) not the highest quality, and it's rated 500W *max* (480 is more accurate, and it probably wouldn't do that continuously).

So it's possible - not to jump to conclusions - but it's possible the PSU isn't able to provide enough power to the GPU.

Who made the GPU/what model, please?  It should say on the box what the recommended power supply is.

Sadly, I agree that this is a potential cause. Nvidia recommends a 650w for this GPU I believe.

Edit - though I'm reading on Reddit that people say they're using 500 or 550w PSUs with no issue.

Unfortunately it's physically one of the hardest components to replace

Edited February 26, 2024 by unlikely_spider

[kksnowbear]

Yeah...see, that cable is signaling the GPU (via the 4 small pins) that your PSU is capable of dedicated 600W delivery to the PSU**.  So the GPU (at boot) tries to kick into high gear, and the 480W PSU just falls over screaming.

Or at least, that's what seems likely to me.

** This does depend on the exact wiring of the 4 pin 'sideband' connection, but I am given to say the ones with all 4 pins are wired to signal a 600W-capable PSU.

 

Edited February 26, 2024 by kksnowbear

[kksnowbear]

15 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

Edit - though I'm reading on Reddit that people say they're using 500 or 550w PSUs with no issue.

Yeah, that's gonna depend *entirely* on the quality of the PSU and the rest of the system. ANd, to be accurate, I am pretty sure that some 500-550 units actually support proper 12VHPWR connections, with signaling, and also support the ATX 3.0/PCIe 5.0 required 'excursion' limits.  The PSU can exceed 2 or even 2.5x it's max output power, IIRC, as a short-duration 'peak' dedicated to the GPU.

The thing is, the adapter cables "cheat" the GPU into thinking the PSU is up to the task by hard wiring what are designed to be actual control signals.  When the lie is big enough...well, this is what sometimes can happen.

Not saying it won't work, but if Asus says 750, I'd listen.  They make the card after all.

In any case, I cannot imagine the PSU the  OP has is capable of actually delivering any 500W - even at peak.  It's just honestly a low-end unit (I looked it up; among other things, it has a red 115-220V selector on it...this is a dead giveaway of a really low-end unit).

Edited February 26, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Flapjacks]

Alright, I'll look into getting a new PSU. Y'all think I'd be safe getting a 750w then? Any brand recommendation or to stay away from? 

[unlikely_spider]

5 minutes ago, Flapjacks said:

Alright, I'll look into getting a new PSU. Y'all think I'd be safe getting a 750w then? Any brand recommendation or to stay away from? 

I've used Corsair for a long time and tend to trust them.

I would just stay away from Gigabyte - they are the one recent PSU I bought that wasn't Corsair and was recalled very shortly thereafter due to a tendency to explode

[kksnowbear]

Well, there are lots of good ones...eVGA, Corsair, Antec, PCPower and Cooling, BeQuiet...

More important than the name brand, though, is which model.  See, they don't really build these units. Pretty sure they *all* farm their PSU builds out to Chinese companies - some much better, some worse.  So, you can buy a mediocre unit from even a big name.  Even the big names have produced units that were found to have dangerous design flaws in a few rare cases.

They kinda know people trust a name, and they often abuse that trust, I'm sorry to say.

Here's an idea: Maybe find something you're considering, post back here.  I'm sure you'll get input.

Don't buy anything that feels lightweight - not kidding...good PSUs at 750W will have fairly heavy heatsinks inside, so they'll feel solid.

Also, don't buy anything cheap.  If it sounds too good to be true...well, you know.  Look at the 'going rate' for 750W units in general, then find something not too far from that range.

But, without doubt, it is best to ask someone who knows first, if you can manage that.

Edited February 26, 2024 by kksnowbear

[kksnowbear]

A *very* quick check indicates some decent units are out there right around ~$90-100.  Might do better if you catch a promo/sale.

Also, please do not confuse "Gold", Bronze" and other 80+ ratings with any sort of quality scale.  80+ is a rating system for efficiency not quality.  It is entirely possible to have a Bronze (lower) rated PSU that's actually higher quality than a Gold (higher) rated unit.

And please take note: It's not just Gold, or Platinum...these rating MUST have the 80+ logo to be legit:

 

Finally, you don't *need* anything higher than Gold, and even Bronze is OK, if it's an otherwise quality unit.  Post back with what you find and we'll see.

Edited February 26, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Flapjacks]

I'm not sure what is considered cheap pricewise. Just browsing I seen two: 

CORSAIR CX750M 80 PLUS Bronze Semi-Modular Low-Noise ATX 750 Watt Power Supply - NA - Black

and  

EVGA SuperNOVA 750 GT, 80 Plus Gold 750W, Fully Modular, Auto Eco Mode with FDB Fan, 7 Year Warranty, Includes Power ON Self Tester, Compact 150mm Size, Power Supply 220-GT-0750-Y1

 

[kksnowbear]

Like I said above, somewhere ~90-100 is probably reasonable, <75 probably starting to get into "cheapo" range.

Those two you listed aren't terrible units, depending on cost.

EDIT: Amazon has the Corsair unit for $80 (plus tax of course) - it's a Bronze unit with a 5-year warranty; the eVGA you listed goes $110 - it's a Gold unit with a 7-year warranty.

Edited February 26, 2024 by kksnowbear

[Flapjacks]

Sorry for yet another question but are these fairly easy to swap out? I was pretty hesitant to try to do the gpu myself but tried anyways. 

[kksnowbear]

Actually they are fairly easy.  PITA sometimes because there are so many connectors and cables...and it does warrant a bit of caution.  I'd recommend seeking help if you're not certain and confident.

Please check your PMs.

[kksnowbear]

4 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

Nvidia recommends a 650w for this GPU I believe.

Actually, I believe it is a 750 W unit as I said above:

https://www.asus.com/us/motherboards-components/graphics-cards/dual/dual-rtx4070s-o12g/techspec/

Notice the OP's pics indicate an Asus "Dual" model 4070 Super, and they only make one of those in black (one is white).  So I'm pretty sure that's it.

Note: I should add that I am honestly surprised that Asus recommends a 750w PSU for a GPU with a 220W TDP as the OP's 4070 Super is (per Nvidia specs).  Even more confusing is that the card comes with a "2 to 1" type 12VHPWR adapter for two 8 pin PCIe plugs.  Technically, that means the card can draw 375W; well beyond the spec 220 TDP for a 4070 Super. Then, there's the 4 pin sideband adapter, which I believe signals a PSU capable of 600W.

So...not sure what to think, but my assumption is that Asus had a reason for their recommendation, and the best answer is to follow it.

Edited February 27, 2024 by kksnowbear

[kksnowbear]

So, to continue unraveling the mystery of "WTF is going on with this Asus GPU?" lol...

Here are some further details I found, on the Asus website, so it's straight from the card's manufacturer:

Two things in the picture I wanted to elaborate on:

1. Top section shows GPU LED behavior.  This is what I talking about earlier when I said that "Some are on when the machine is off, and turn off when the machine is on."  My Asus 4090 behaves like that.  It is my understanding this applies to all Asus 30 and 40-series cards with the 16 pin 12VHPWR connector shown above.  It would be prudent to confirm your LEDs behave appropriately - as you can see having the LED ON in some states is normal, but can also indicate an improperly connected power cable.  It should turn OFF when the machine is powered up.

2. Bottom section further clarifies PSU requirements.  As I mentioned previously, "...they often "over-recommend" PSUs since the GPU they sell is only part of a system, and that system could be loaded with God-knows-what."  What the table above shows is some examples of the various internal configurations, and Asus' PSU recommendations.

The Asus website says, as indicated above, that the recommended PSU is 750W (per https://www.asus.com/us/motherboards-components/graphics-cards/dual/dual-rtx4070s-o12g/techspec/)

However, digging a little deeper I found the table and it shows what I meant: The guts inside more accurately dictate the PSU capacity.  So, if in fact you have an i9 or Ryzen9, the recommendation is 750W.  However, if you have a lesser CPU like the i5/i7 or Ryzen 5/7, then the recommendation drops to 650.

To the OP: You didn't indicate what CPU (or other guts) so that would help.  But it is possible that you might save a little on a replacement PSU if you have one of the CPUs that doesn't require a 750W per the table above.  That being said, it bears mentioning here that builders often use a PSU that is intentionally oversized, the intent being to allow for expansion later on.  This is becoming more an issue with GPUs of late:  The power limits are through the roof, so if you wish, there's nothing wrong with using a PSU with more than the required or even recommended capacity - other than cost and perhaps physical size.

On that final note, I'll suggest this: Just to be thorough, please check the dimensions on your current PSU and case, to make sure the replacement you find will actually fit and that cables are long enough to reach where they gotta go   Replacing a PSU is actually not difficult...but there are lots of ways it can go to h*ll quick.  Again, if you're not confident and comfortable, I'd seek help.

Good luck

Edited February 27, 2024 by kksnowbear