NADIR problems

[scoobie]

Yesterday I sat down to the Gazelle to "study" NADIR a little bit more. Got a notepad and a pen and the plan was to write down everything you can do with NADIR. The only thing I actually wrote was "NADIR" at the top of the page and... I stopped there - so many things seemed not to work as expected.

For example:
1. (I described this particular bug in another topic on the forum, only later I noticed NADIR seems to have more problems. For clarity I'll repeat this one here.)
Long press on "EFF" is coded wrong. It waits until the user releases the button and only then it checks how long it has been pressed. That's not how such things are programmed. You do start a timer when the user presses a button (or you take a timestamp with sufficient resolution - e.g. 0.1 s or so), but then you "monitor" the button and if 2 seconds have passed since the button press, you invoke "long press" function on your own, without waiting for the user to release the button. Later you must make sure you won't react to the button release, the button has been "reacted to" already.

2. It doesn't seem to be possible to enter Lat/Lon "forward", starting with N/S (or W/E) then digits. Am I doing it wrong? Seems like you have to "backspace" (with "EFF") previous coords then enter new ones. The RL manual in French doesn't even mention it. (CORRECTION: Detailed NADIR manual does mention that, both methods should work - forward entry and "backspace" entry). Maybe you can do it in the real NADIR, but you definitely should be able to "forward enter" coords - both RL manual and Polychop's manual state that. Maybe this used to work and later it got bugged? IDK.

3. NADIR display, at least as depicted in DCS:Gazelle, truncates leading zeros, but happily displays "09" instead of "9". I think I saw "09" in wind data, but that might have been some other of those auxiliary data you can select with "parameters selector". 10 and bigger numbers as well as 8 and lesser numbers are displayed truncated. CORRECTION: Detailed NADIR manual shows that NADIR does show leading zeros in some cases. Also, it shows degree symbol (a LED diode stuck between 7-segment digits) especially when a pair of "heading - speed" data is being displayed. This helps understand which line is for heading and which one for speed. E.g. wind data does that.

4. General programming (a mess).
I can enter an "invisible data entry mode". I think I pressed "ENT" in PP mode, then turned the parameter selector to "BUT" and couldn't select waypoints. Only when I pressed and held "EFF" long, the "invisible data entry mode" would quit and I could select waypoints again.
Also, I'm not sure how I did that, but I was able to zeroize a waypoint's coords with just a few erratic button presses (NOT with editing the waypoint's coords). I'm a pro!

5. "GEL" icon in the top-left area of the display doesn't illuminate when you "GEL" something.

6. The "ground" icon should look like an inverted "T", but looks like "0" on the display and it seems to never show up. (BTW, I think there's a unicode character that looks like inverted T.) Apparently it should illuminate when position fix was pressed but the fix wasn't accepted yet, i.e. "position fix procedure" hasn't been finalized yet.

7. I couldn't get position fix procedure to work (which might explain the point above). There should be 2 ways - manual position entry and "copy from a waypoint" method. Does NADIR drift at all?

8. Does "ERR" ever illuminate? It should when the operator presses something stupid - not according to the procedure NADIR expects.

9. Does "G1" lamp ever illuminate (the red round light over the "ENT" key)? It should get lit when some kind of data is "now ready to be memorized" by pressing "ENT".

10. Does "G2" lamp ever illuminate (the one over the "DES" key)? It should when NADIR is waiting for pressing waypoint number button.

11. Does "G3" ever illuminate (the one over the "AUX" key)? It should when in "AUX" mode NADIR is waiting for a specific AUX function button to be pressed. AUX mode does work, and prevents you from using NADIR "normally". You cancel the mode with "EFF" long press (this works too), but there's no indication you are in this mode. May be misleading at times (when you forget you were in AUX and you later try to use NADIR in normal mode).

Edited April 3, 2024 by scoobie

[okopanja]

Probably you wish the feedback from the authors of module, but I hope I can share this from my modding experience.

I gather you are using the module documentation and not the IRL manual or similar thing?

It's being awhile since I implemented the automatic entry for Gazelle in my mode, but you can find my sequences here:

1. Covers entry into BUT mode, entry of multiple waypoints and optional selection of waypoint 1 (otherwise last entered):

https://github.com/okopanja/SharkPlanner/blob/e46db5f85c8dbe01b3295e2170e0a01ceb5e54eb/SharkPlanner/Modules/SA342Gazelle/GazelleCommandGenerator.lua#L42-L47

2. Loops over waypoints

https://github.com/okopanja/SharkPlanner/blob/e46db5f85c8dbe01b3295e2170e0a01ceb5e54eb/SharkPlanner/Modules/SA342Gazelle/GazelleCommandGenerator.lua#L55-L59

3. Entry of specific waypoint

https://github.com/okopanja/SharkPlanner/blob/e46db5f85c8dbe01b3295e2170e0a01ceb5e54eb/SharkPlanner/Modules/SA342Gazelle/GazelleCommandGenerator.lua#L61-L101

The actual key-presses you can find here:

https://github.com/okopanja/SharkPlanner/blob/e46db5f85c8dbe01b3295e2170e0a01ceb5e54eb/SharkPlanner/Modules/SA342Gazelle/GazelleCommandGenerator.lua#L103-L123

Note: NOP command was used to introduced delay between making another keypress in some cases.

I never played with fix, so I am interested if you make further discoveries what can be done with NADIR.

At present I found it useful for navigation and to keep track of the engagement envelope of SAMs.

Edited April 3, 2024 by okopanja

[scoobie]

Wow! Cool stuff, thanks for pointing out!
Well, I wrote it in the hope that maybe NADIR update gets on the "TO DO" list at Polychop one day. Sure thing the flight model is priority one, also for myself, but perhaps NADIR... one day?
I tried to use the in-game manual initially, but the one for NADIR was written... uhm, erm, oh boy... you know how it was written, you can see it yourself So, yesterday I got my hands on a RL manual, looks pretty old, written on a typewriter. I can't speak French, but there are nice drawings intertwined with the text, so you can figure out a lot. I also used an online translator a little bit, when in doubt.

[okopanja]

16 minutes ago, scoobie said:

I tried to use the in-game manual initially, but the one for NADIR was written...

There is an updated version Chuck's manual. He must have done this in the past 6-9 months, since tablet was included.

There you can find some information on what you can do with the NADIR:

https://chucksguides.com/aircraft/dcs/sa-342/#pffe

As for RL manual: I am pretty sure that Polychop dudes have it. You might want to check with them directly on discord (do not post it publicly, since it may still have some classified parts).

Aside from HSI needle that shows direction and distance, there is a vertical gray bar on the ADI, which can be also used to show direction to navpoint, provided that you have switched the selector to DOP.

You can also use NADIR to display remaining flight time.

Until now I have not played with wind settings for any of the modules, but I assume that wind conditions affect both trimming and possibly autopilot (not sure here).

[gabuzomeu]

For RL info, you may go to alat.fr , which is the web site of french army aviation veterans, where the manual is available for free

https://www.alat.fr/documentation-alat-manuels-instruction-techniques-manuels-liste.html

[scoobie]

32 minutes ago, gabuzomeu said:

For RL info, you may go to alat.fr (...)

Crikey! Silly me! I used this general manual "Manuel de VOL SA342M-projet-1970" from this very website and there are only a few pages about NADIR in it. Didn't notice there's also the full-fledged manual for NADIR itself... and this one lets you select text and copy-paste it into the translator! Winner, winner (chicken dinner)!
Thanks for waking me up! I need brain transplant.

1 hour ago, okopanja said:

There is an updated version Chuck's manual (...)

Yep, read the Chuck's guide, who doesn't read them! Basically I know what I can do with NADIR (yesterday I just wanted to dig deeper, "solve puzzles" etc.). Waypoint creation works, so you can navigate and that's most important. It's just the little bugger is quite bugged and a few very handy functionalities are missing.

Thanks guys!

[gabuzomeu]

Indeed, the alat web site is full of interesting things (in french); including a 1994 ,45 page, illustrated combat flight manual, to perform properly tactical maneuvers with the gazelle