Ideas for COIN warfare?

[Stratos]

The other day and thanks to NineLine I discovered some tricks to improve my COIN flights, for example I can know deactivate a ground group when I'm really close simulating supression or make them red status to simulate a not very disciplined guerrilla. But what other ME ideas can I use ti add more COIN flavour to my missions? Specially now with Afghanistan coming soon.

Thanks!

[Stratos]

I'm collapsed with such amount of answers...

[TEMPEST.114]

There is so much broken and so much more missing in DCS with regards to handling ground units - both infantry and vehicles; starting with a total lack of civilian animated human models (diplomats, hostages, bystanders, local police, swat teams etc.), pathing, routing and collision avoidance/detection and other 'realistic' behaviours that you're never going to be able to do COIN ops well.

It's why a map like Afghanistan over a more 'air-warfare' orientated map was a poor choice IMHO. And why the Kiowa will probably be little more than a novelty (like the Gazelle).  

Personally I can't wait for the Kola Peninsula map & the like.

Edited April 12, 2024 by Elphaba

[Shrike88]

Agreed.  With the onset of the apache, it just brings to light the large lack of infantry assets in DCS especially animated ones.   Still have been working with the same 4   soldiers the last decade.  Soldier M4, Solder 249, Soldier AK, RPG.  This especially when mods are so highly discouraged from the developers.

Really amazing to me the community has not chimed in on this with the lack of COIN assets.  I am really starting to think the only solution would be paid content packs or some type of contract ED works with another 3d party like currenthill to start bringing more assets into DCS Core. 

[Exorcet]

You'll probably want to practice working with triggers and flags if you haven't already. The ground AI isn't very dynamic on its own. You can make them move around and engage in various tasks to a degree with commands like Hold, or go to waypoint, or passing them tasks to shoot at points or engage certain targets.

While this can work to an extent, it's also a bit tedious to do. My suggestion for mission building is to set up one semi complex mission with features like this and then when ever you want to make a new mission, start from the prebuilt mission with many triggers etc. That way you can save some work. You may spend a lot of time on the original mission, but hopefully not so much on subsequent ones. Pick your map wisely since we don't have an easy way to copy between maps.

Something useful for more than COIN is learning how to set groups to spawn randomly as it makes missions more fun to replay because they become dynamic. Do this by setting multiple groups on the map with "Late Activation" checked. Then on the trigger page you can set triggers to assign a random value to a flag and then make each value of the that flag spawn a different group in the mission.

Also a tip on the suppression idea that you mentioned. Don't use deactivate, unless you want the group to vanish forever. You can instead turn the AI off. This leaves the units in the mission and allows them to be turned back on.

[Stratos]

I know how to work with triggers, but flags escape me. The idea of spawning random groups sound pretty good.

[Exorcet]

2 hours ago, Stratos said:

I know how to work with triggers, but flags escape me. The idea of spawning random groups sound pretty good.

Flags aren't that complicated. There is actually a topic for discussing them if you want some help:

 

But in summary they are variables in your mission that you can use pass or store information, like turning on a flag when a particular unit does something.

[TEMPEST.114]

3 hours ago, Stratos said:

I know how to work with triggers, but flags escape me. The idea of spawning random groups sound pretty good.

As @Exorcet said, flags are just VARIABLES. They have a name (anything you want - they don't have to be numbers, you can use words or a combination) and they have a VALUE.

Usually that value is binary - 1 or 0 i.e. true or false.

However they can also hold a numerical value - i.e. use them to count up or down e.g. a score or unit count.

That's all they are. They have NO INTRINSIC MEANING. So I'd strongly recommend using words - not numbers - for your flags and using them to hold data so that other trigger conditions can use them to see if they should do something or not.

e.g. 

flag called 'RedAirIsDead' is false (0). But when player kills that unit, you set that variable to true (1).

Then another trigger condition is continually looking at 'RedAirIsDead' so that when it's true it can add a value of '1' to another flag/variable called 'BluePlayerScore'.

It's just that simple. 

Hope this helps. 

On 4/12/2024 at 4:21 PM, Shrike88 said:

Agreed.  With the onset of the apache, it just brings to light the large lack of infantry assets in DCS especially animated ones.   Still have been working with the same 4   soldiers the last decade.  Soldier M4, Solder 249, Soldier AK, RPG.  This especially when mods are so highly discouraged from the developers.

Really amazing to me the community has not chimed in on this with the lack of COIN assets.  I am really starting to think the only solution would be paid content packs or some type of contract ED works with another 3d party like currenthill to start bringing more assets into DCS Core. 

There are AMAZING mods (free) and you only need OvGME to install them and they work flawlessly. 

[Shrike88]

True. However running a modded game precludes you from playing online in any other server unless those mods are running or IC is off.   It just comes down to lack of content in DCS. 

[TEMPEST.114]

7 hours ago, Shrike88 said:

True. However running a modded game precludes you from playing online in any other server unless those mods are running or IC is off.   It just comes down to lack of content in DCS. 

You use OvGME and one button press toggles them off. It's ridiculously easy. And IC isn't an issue. They're just assets.

But yeah, DCS needs more assets. 

[Priest]

You can do some stuff with vehicles using triggers and flags that work "ok" but keep your vehicle groups really small if trying to do intricate movements especially if running a super-detailed map like Syria. Two-unit groups or even just single-unit "groups" if necessary. I think it helps to be really detailed with your waypoints when tight turns are necessary around buildings and such. Use three or four waypoints to really define the AI unit route around turns, don't leave it to the AI to sort out, and use those extra waypoints to slow down and speed back up going into and out of the turns. Keeps the AI mostly out of trouble, but is very tedious to set up.

Infantry though is hopeless in its current state even if try to do troop movements completely by "hand" so to speak using single-unit groups with extremely detailed waypoints along the entire path no matter what they go haywire eventually and start clipping through buildings, vehicles, wandering off randomly, whatever. I've tried to make it work a hundred times probably and always end up giving up in frustration because it just doesn't work.

[TEMPEST.114]

52 minutes ago, Priest said:

Use three or four waypoints to really define the AI unit route around turns, don't leave it to the AI to sort out, and use those extra waypoints to slow down and speed back up going into and out of the turns. Keeps the AI mostly out of trouble, but is very tedious to set up.

I've still had them go off route and get stuck in gardens and car parks etc even doing this. 

It's a PITA and it's basically borked unless they're driving over empty fields. 

Hell, they still get stuck or fall off bridges. 

[Bingo911]

There are a few mods out there that can help like this one and this one. I've made a list of things I would like to put in my missions for COIN. Then I set out to figure out how to make them work in the Mission Editor. I'm now learning to make templates for things like troops in contact, route clearance and on and on so they can happen randomly on the map. It's been a struggle to learn but keep hammering at it.

You can also teleport those stuck vehicles to try and get them unstuck. I think it's a function in mist.

mist.teleportToPoint