WinWing Joystick Base2 Won't Update Without Disconnecting the F16 Grip

[Maddaawg]

I am trying to update my Orion2 joystick base, but SimAppPro won't let me without disconnecting the F16 JGrip. So, am I supposed to take it apart just to update? I have never run into this issue before with this HOTAS. I added some screen grabs for clarity.

[mkel2010]

I just checked and I get the same message. It's likely because the grip doesn't need to update and having it connected while the base updates would likely corrupt the grip's firmware. Best bet is to disconnect everything but the base, keyboard and mouse to run the update.

[Maddaawg]

I put in a ticket at WinWing and they are working on it.

[mkel2010]

36 minutes ago, Maddaawg said:

I put in a ticket at WinWing and they are working on it.

Please let us know when they fix it.

[Maddaawg]

Will do.

[Maddaawg]

On 5/4/2024 at 9:11 AM, mkel2010 said:

I just checked and I get the same message. It's likely because the grip doesn't need to update and having it connected while the base updates would likely corrupt the grip's firmware. Best bet is to disconnect everything but the base, keyboard and mouse to run the update.

In a post I made about this somewhere else, a person responded that they removed the stick, and it updated the base then but now his stick doesn't work. I'll follow the mantra if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

[Maddaawg]

So, the person with the problem with the non-functional stick after updating the base firmware was given an older version of SimAppPro and that allowed him to fix the issue and then update the firmware. And another person updated without issue but shows a higher firmware version than what SAP says is available for mine and it shows the same HOTAS. I'm just not going to update any longer unless they add a feature I really need, or it breaks in DCS.

[Shack]

Update:  I am now running SIMAPP PRO 1.82 and my F16EX grip and Orion 2 are updated with latest firmware and operating normally. I suppose WW will make a software correction to the latest SIMAPP to prevent this from being an issue.

*UPDATE* - Once SIMAPP 1.82 was able to run with my F16EX and Orion 2, I updated the SIMAPP to the latest version with no further complications for the F16EX firmware issue.  Roundabout way to do it but their suggestion worked. 

Edited May 27, 2024 by Shack

[shadowborn]

On 5/24/2024 at 11:14 PM, Shack said:

Update:  I am now running SIMAPP PRO 1.82

Do you mean 1.8.22? I can not find any SimAppPro 1.82. It seems like a very high version number. I updated today and it gave me 1.14.6 beta. It has the same issue where it wants me to disconnect the stick from the base. Which I don't want to do, cause it's very fiddly to get the PS2 connector connected again with the too short cable inside the grip and the pins will eventually wear out.

Fwiw, I tried downgrading to 1.9.29 (an old version I still had in my downloads folder). However, since 1.14.6 doesn't uninstall cleanly when installed over 1.9.29, I had to use Revo Uninstaller to wipe all traces of Simappro, then install 1.9.29.

Pro Tip: DO NOT LET SIMAPPPRO UPDATE ITSELF, it will leave traces of the old version in the registry and mess things up. UNINSTALL the old version using "Add Remove Programs" in Windows, then install the new one.

However, 1.9.29 has the exact same issue as 1.14.6 and wants me to disconnect the grip in order to update the base.

I guess I'll wait for Winwing to get their act together in a new version then.

Oh, and another pro tip: My Winwing stick and throttle work superbly on an USB hub. However, SimAppPro will NOT recognize them through the hub for the "Device" tab. Cost me another hour to figure that out. Quite a mess, this software ...

Edited May 27, 2024 by shadowborn

[rob10]

36 minutes ago, shadowborn said:

Oh, and another pro tip: My Winwing stick and throttle work superbly on an USB hub. However, SimAppPro will NOT recognize them through the hub for the "Device" tab. Cost me another hour to figure that out. Quite a mess, this software ...

I have my F-18 MIP/UFC and throttle (original Orion) connected thru a hub and no problems on my end with SimAppPro seeing it in device tab.

[MustangSally]

4 hours ago, shadowborn said:

Do you mean 1.8.22? I can not find any SimAppPro 1.82. It seems like a very high version number. I updated today and it gave me 1.14.6 beta. It has the same issue where it wants me to disconnect the stick from the base. Which I don't want to do, cause it's very fiddly to get the PS2 connector connected again with the too short cable inside the grip and the pins will eventually wear out.

Fwiw, I tried downgrading to 1.9.29 (an old version I still had in my downloads folder). However, since 1.14.6 doesn't uninstall cleanly when installed over 1.9.29, I had to use Revo Uninstaller to wipe all traces of Simappro, then install 1.9.29.

Pro Tip: DO NOT LET SIMAPPPRO UPDATE ITSELF, it will leave traces of the old version in the registry and mess things up. UNINSTALL the old version using "Add Remove Programs" in Windows, then install the new one.

However, 1.9.29 has the exact same issue as 1.14.6 and wants me to disconnect the grip in order to update the base.

I guess I'll wait for Winwing to get their act together in a new version then.

Oh, and another pro tip: My Winwing stick and throttle work superbly on an USB hub. However, SimAppPro will NOT recognize them through the hub for the "Device" tab. Cost me another hour to figure that out. Quite a mess, this software ...

 

Been using Simappro since inception with absolutely no issues when updating.

[Maddaawg]

It took them 24 days to respond, and this is the answer:

Quote

spacehamster [2024-05-27 00:28:52

Remove the grip and only connect the Orion 2 base to the computer, then upgrade the firmware

spacehamster [2024-05-27 00:29:05]

If there is a new problem, please contact us, thanks

So, no fix and I don't see any reason to change the firmware because if it fails, they are going to leave me hanging with a dead stick. No need to fix what isn't broke and I decided not to buy the F15Ex throttle grips as the throttle base also needs a firmware and it will probably get mucked up.

[MustangSally]

18 minutes ago, Maddaawg said:

It took them 24 days to respond, and this is the answer:

So, no fix and I don't see any reason to change the firmware because if it fails, they are going to leave me hanging with a dead stick. No need to fix what isn't broke and I decided not to buy the F15Ex throttle grips as the throttle base also needs a firmware and it will probably get mucked up.

I have 2 Orion2 sticks. One with the Ex grip and the other with the F18 grip. I went through the full firmware update on both with grips removed and I lived to tell the story.  Worked perfectly!

[Maddaawg]

3 minutes ago, MustangSally said:

I have 2 Orion2 sticks. One with the Ex grip and the other with the F18 grip. I went through the full firmware update on both with grips removed and I lived to tell the story.  Worked perfectly!

The last time I took the stick off the base the cable connection was very finicky. Its designed so that the pins contact firs before the barrel guides it properly. Two pins were bent on reinstall and they are incredibly weak pins which I needle nosed back into place. I see zero reason to fix what isn't broke. WinWing needs to get its act together, disconnecting every USB device except the keyboard and mouse, including the hubs was painful enough, now I have to disconnect their own parts. What's next, running jumper wires through the barrel connector of the stick directly to a USB connector on the MB?

I have lots of USB devices that get firmware upgrades, not a single one of them have ever had me disconnect other USB devices or take their equipment apart.

[MustangSally]

6 minutes ago, Maddaawg said:

The last time I took the stick off the base the cable connection was very finicky. Its designed so that the pins contact firs before the barrel guides it properly. Two pins were bent on reinstall and they are incredibly weak pins which I needle nosed back into place. I see zero reason to fix what isn't broke. WinWing needs to get its act together, disconnecting every USB device except the keyboard and mouse, including the hubs was painful enough, now I have to disconnect their own parts. What's next, running jumper wires through the barrel connector of the stick directly to a USB connector on the MB?

I have lots of USB devices that get firmware upgrades, not a single one of them have ever had me disconnect other USB devices or take their equipment apart.

Oh for gawds sake, it's not an issue and the sky isn't falling!

[Maddaawg]

13 minutes ago, MustangSally said:

Oh for gawds sake, it's not an issue and the sky isn't falling!

Get over yourself! "I have no problems from day 1, so nobody else will!" Fan Boy!

[MustangSally]

35 minutes ago, Maddaawg said:

Get over yourself! "I have no problems from day 1, so nobody else will!" Fan Boy!

OK then....seeya

[Shack]

7 hours ago, shadowborn said:

Do you mean 1.8.22? I can not find any SimAppPro 1.82. It seems like a very high version number. I updated today and it gave me 1.14.6 beta. It has the same issue where it wants me to disconnect the stick from the base. Which I don't want to do, cause it's very fiddly to get the PS2 connector connected again with the too short cable inside the grip and the pins will eventually wear out.

Fwiw, I tried downgrading to 1.9.29 (an old version I still had in my downloads folder). However, since 1.14.6 doesn't uninstall cleanly when installed over 1.9.29, I had to use Revo Uninstaller to wipe all traces of Simappro, then install 1.9.29.

Pro Tip: DO NOT LET SIMAPPPRO UPDATE ITSELF, it will leave traces of the old version in the registry and mess things up. UNINSTALL the old version using "Add Remove Programs" in Windows, then install the new one.

However, 1.9.29 has the exact same issue as 1.14.6 and wants me to disconnect the grip in order to update the base.

I guess I'll wait for Winwing to get their act together in a new version then.

Oh, and another pro tip: My Winwing stick and throttle work superbly on an USB hub. However, SimAppPro will NOT recognize them through the hub for the "Device" tab. Cost me another hour to figure that out. Quite a mess, this software ...

 

Here is the dialogue with WinWing on getting the F16EX to work with the lastest firmware ( on Orion 2 base ).   Once the F16EX updated on version 1.82, i then updated the SIMAPP through the settings to the latest version and all is operating well. 

 

TommyLiu [2024-05-20 23:21:56]

SimAppPro Setup 1.8.2.exe

TommyLiu [2024-05-20 23:23:32]

Dear customer:1.Install 1.8.2 simapp 2.update firmwares in 1.8.2 simapp 3.update simapp to latest

spacehamster [2024-05-21 22:27:40]

Dear customer, have you uninstalled the SIMAPP?

spacehamster [2024-05-21 22:28:33]

Dear customer, please copy the Uninstall SimAppPro.exe file to the directory [C:\Program Files (x86)\SimAppPro\]. Then open the uninstall and modify application in Windows then click the uninstall button of SimAppPro

spacehamster [2024-05-21 22:29:09]

Uninstall SimAppPro.exe

TommyLiu [2024-05-24 22:28:55]

If there is no effection on your PC,you could keep it running,please contact us if you meet with problem

[Nunyer]

Just wanted to second what Shack posted above, as I had a similar issue. Downgrading to an older version of SimAppPro was a valid workaround. I never had to do any physical disassembly of the unit before, no reason to start now. The SimAppPro software has been generally solid, I'd give it a B/B+. But after all this time of having trouble free firmware updates, it's pretty clearly a Winwing software issue if suddenly support is telling us that we need to physically disassemble the unit to apply an update. I hope it doesn't crop up again, but this is almost certainly a problem on their end. 

I did basically the same thing as Shack: 

1) Uninstall existing SimAppPro

(If you are familiar / comfortable with Revo Uninstaller, I'd suggest using that to cleanup the SimAppPro registry leftovers, as the uninstall doesn't appear to be 100% clean)

2) Reboot then install older version of SimAppPro (1.8.18 was the oldest version I still had in my downloads folder)

3) Update all required firmware (I unplugged all other USB devices as requested, it complained that the base and stick were still connected but the application proceeded with the firmware updates). Repeated same steps for my throttle base / handle.

4) Update to latest version of SimAppPro

Hopefully this issue doesn't repeat itself, my sim pit did gather dust for about three months, so it might have just been a version mismatch... where I updated the application to a newer version after three months away... and that newer application version didn't play nice with existing firmware that was two or more releases out of date. That's just a guess, but it's the only additional circumstance I can come up with. 

[shadowborn]

Revisiting this topic some weeks later, I agree: Winwing needs to get their act together. There is a new version of SimappPro, but it still wants me to disconnect the grip. I, too, had issues with the connector, with bent pins, and the cable is really short. It's a major hassle to take apart and I'd rather not. Here's hoping that someone from Winwing stumbles over this and reacts.

[ZACHI]

--- BUMP ---
I'm 3 versions back with the firmware now...

WinWing any plans to fix that?

[MustangSally]

1 hour ago, ZACHI said:

--- BUMP ---
I'm 3 versions back with the firmware now...

WinWing any plans to fix that?

Remove the grip, do the firmware upgrade and refit. I've only ever had to do it once in four Simappro updates. The sky won't fall!

[Maddaawg]

16 hours ago, MustangSally said:

Remove the grip, do the firmware upgrade and refit. I've only ever had to do it once in four Simappro updates. The sky won't fall!

It was not hard to do, it was annoying, and the parts are fragile. Eventually, I had to do this after trying older versions that still required me to disassemble the stick. While working on this, I was reminded that as I dismantled the CHEAP barrel connector with very fragile pins, with wires stretched to their limit through the extension, if it were to break, I would receive no assistance from Win Wing as support from them is roughly translated to - "too bad, so sad".

My Orion 2 throttle detent cracked under normal use, the first reply from CS: 

Quote

Dear customer: our products have endured hundreds and thousands of violent tests before being put on the market. Usually, it won’t be broken unless mishandled.

Sorry, This situation is not under warranty.

I seriously doubt they had "hundreds and thousands of violent tests".

Anyone can look at the idle detent and see that it is a poorly designed with just a small bit of plastic at the screw/nut connection. 

And what would it cost to replace the wire as you would probably have to buy the extension again at $53 plus $30 or so for shipping and wait 3 weeks for it to arrive.

If they made this a high-quality connection, there would really be no issue, but they did not.

[menace]

Sorry to be snarky here, 

 

In the past the app said to unplug, and didn't check if you had the unplugged your other devices, now the app is checking to see if you have at unplugged devices that MAY have issues when they are still plugged in.

 

Follow the apps "demand" for them to be unplugged. A Powered USB Hub that has switches should do the job.

[MustangSally]

To make things easier, I just use a laptop with simappro installed and a spare usb lead. No need to chase cables under the pit