Is it time to give up on DCS ww2?

[Ala13_ManOWar]

1 hour ago, Licenceless said:

Well, I guess the point here is that we already invested in ww2, Corsair being made is in it self a problem (at least for me). 

Imagine it this way: (it's a weird example but please bare with me) You see a new promising "build your self" car on the market, lets say a Ford; it has the best suspension and very good traction, better than anything on the market, it's on the expensive side but for true enthusiasts it's worth it. Problem is the the company hasn't made all the parts yet. It's missing a lot of features like a dashboard and what not, no horn, no windows etc.. You still buy it because you're enthusiastic about the product and it's very promising, very good base to go forward from. All of the sudden the company starts making just the seats floor mats for a completely different car and they contract someone to make a hood and that contractor has been making that hood for 8 years even though other contractors pump out good quality ones on a much more stable basis. Than you wonder, "who is going to buy that, it has little promise and potential and the company hasn't even finished completing MY car yet". You loose faith in the company and you feel cheated out of your money especially when the same company makes electric cars which are much more complex but they still make more of them.

I totally get the example, and yes I can think of some other software out there with pretty much those conditions, which would definitely be so annoying and frustrating had I invested in that other software. Yes, I'm with you if you've being one of those space "investors" out there and I feel you pain, totally mate.

But, you bear with me now. Here, frustration only comes from anticipation and expectations management, not because I've invested whatever the quantity in software with the "promise" of something amazingly good in a distant future which never comes to be. Here, yes, we've yet bought other products in the line of WWII stuff, amazing ones and pretty usable despite our willingness for even more content in that line, which I can relate too because I like it too. But those aren't even from a same theatre as we're talking here, which is a new theatre expected to come at some point, but not yet there, and when it comes it'll come pretty much fleshed out from what we know so far, a map, two carriers, two modules related to the theatre, ground and sea assets, and what not (and it might come it all out at the same time, or not... who knows...). Besides, some of the stuff we already have could be used in there, either? Yeah, sure, some of it will be fitting and usable either in this theatre to come, which will contribute to the fleshing out of the thing. I mean, sure, totally. But the other way around, until we have it and those other things which we know are coming are released? We don't have them, we haven't "invested" a cent on it, and we can enjoy the stuff we already have without a single problem more than our willingness to get the new stuff and try it on right away. It's not like we can't play Europe without a Corsair and a Hellcat, which yes, took part in D-day, but only in a minor rol so it's not like we are lacking that part we "need" badly. Some other stuff would be quite more "necessary" to the theatre we already have before those. So, two pretty much separated and relatively unrelated theatres, we have one which could be more fleshed out but it's fine as it is, and the other one not released yet and I haven't paid a cent for it. I still don't see why should I feel outraged because it's taking more time than I would like, which is the only reason to be outraged for, hence expectations and out of control willingness for something I don't have already. But I can't clearly see were I'm supposed to feel entitled about feeling outraged like I had already paid anything of a product I'm not getting. I haven't paid a single cent mate... what you talk about are some unfulfilled expectations I created myself in the first place since they didn't promise a thing nor I paid any pre-purchase of anything . So, what can we do in this situation? I just see one way out, wait patiently for it knowing it'll eventually come... and save money to buy it all the moment it's released specially if it all comes at once or almost at once, of course .

[Licenceless]

1 hour ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

I totally get the example, and yes I can think of some other software out there with pretty much those conditions, which would definitely be so annoying and frustrating had I invested in that other software. Yes, I'm with you if you've being one of those space "investors" out there and I feel you pain, totally mate.

But, you bear with me now. Here, frustration only comes from anticipation and expectations management, not because I've invested whatever the quantity in software with the "promise" of something amazingly good in a distant future which never comes to be. Here, yes, we've yet bought other products in the line of WWII stuff, amazing ones and pretty usable despite our willingness for even more content in that line, which I can relate too because I like it too. But those aren't even from a same theatre as we're talking here, which is a new theatre expected to come at some point, but not yet there, and when it comes it'll come pretty much fleshed out from what we know so far, a map, two carriers, two modules related to the theatre, ground and sea assets, and what not (and it might come it all out at the same time, or not... who knows...). Besides, some of the stuff we already have could be used in there, either? Yeah, sure, some of it will be fitting and usable either in this theatre to come, which will contribute to the fleshing out of the thing. I mean, sure, totally. But the other way around, until we have it and those other things which we know are coming are released? We don't have them, we haven't "invested" a cent on it, and we can enjoy the stuff we already have without a single problem more than our willingness to get the new stuff and try it on right away. It's not like we can't play Europe without a Corsair and a Hellcat, which yes, took part in D-day, but only in a minor rol so it's not like we are lacking that part we "need" badly. Some other stuff would be quite more "necessary" to the theatre we already have before those. So, two pretty much separated and relatively unrelated theatres, we have one which could be more fleshed out but it's fine as it is, and the other one not released yet and I haven't paid a cent for it. I still don't see why should I feel outraged because it's taking more time than I would like, which is the only reason to be outraged for, hence expectations and out of control willingness for something I don't have already. But I can't clearly see were I'm supposed to feel entitled about feeling outraged like I had already paid anything of a product I'm not getting. I haven't paid a single cent mate... what you talk about are some unfulfilled expectations I created myself in the first place since they didn't promise a thing nor I paid any pre-purchase of anything . So, what can we do in this situation? I just see one way out, wait patiently for it knowing it'll eventually come... and save money to buy it all the moment it's released specially if it all comes at once or almost at once, of course .

I understand the potential of PTO but all I can see is the abandonment of WTO.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

20 hours ago, Licenceless said:

I understand the potential of PTO but all I can see is the abandonment of WTO.

Yes, anticipation and expectations are like that if you allow them to drag you there. Totally true. Still, those feelings aren't a real fact from what we can possibly know out here, we just don't know, we expect too much and imagine/invent also too much out of thin air since we know nothing .

 

Just a tip, we've known today the F-5 module v2.0 is coming do DCS next week... from we've known earlier than that, what people was saying, "they've forgotten this module...", "it's absolutely abandoned, horrible module...", "They said it'd fix it sometime, we will see it after I'm retired..." , "absolutely garbage of a module, not worth it...", and so, so, so on mate.

Not only they were working at it (as said, just long ago...) despite whatever people complained (and yes, the module was in desperate need of an update, totally true), but the work has gone way faster than could be expected and we get it next week. Yet we didn't know it because... they were working instead of talking. Do you get my point, right?

Edited November 23, 2024 by Ala13_ManOWar

[Licenceless]

13 hours ago, Ala13_ManOWar said:

Yes, anticipation and expectations are like that if you allow them to drag you there. Totally true. Still, those feeling aren't a real fact from what we can possibly know out here, we just don't know, we expect too much and imagine/invent also too much out of thin air since we know nothing .

 

Just a tip, we've known today the F-5 module v2.0 is coming do DCS next week... from we're known earlier than that, what people was saying, "they've forgotten this module...", "it's absolutely abandoned, horrible module...", "They said it'd fix it sometime, we will see it after I'm retired..." , "absolutely garbage of a module, not worth it...", and so, so, so on mate.

Not only they were working at it (as said, just long ago...) despite whatever people complained (and yes, the module was in desperate need of an update, totally true), but the work has gone way faster than could be expected and we get it next week. Yet we didn't know it because... they were working instead of talking. Do you get my point, right?

Yes we don't know a lot of things but what we do know is what ED tells and shows us, and they've shown that they are investing a ton of resources in a new separate product with very vague and uncertain potential instead of putting those resources into a long ongoing project with established population of players and potential which still needs a ton of work to be done on.

The thing about F-5 is that It doesn't need that much work. F5 is beloved by many because of it's simplicity and very well done flight physics. It's the most popular cold war era bird. It's not broken as far as I know. The only thing it needs is updated textures since it was released somewhere in 2016. Nobody ever said F5 is a garbage module and that it's abandoned. So fair Point to ED for doing work on the F5

What about 109 and pony though? They are older than F5 in terms of release and still have some problems and unfinished systems, not to mention even older and crappier textures. Hell, throw the Dora in there too cuz that birb looks old as hell. And yet what got a visual upgrade? The Spit. It's way more recent than others. Sure it looked like hot garbage but what about the others.

This is what I'm trying to say: ED, for a company that sells overly expensive flying pixels doesn't seem to have their priorities straight and their <profanity> together.

They can talk all they want what kind of company they are, what kind of business they have and what kind of products they make but the fact remains: there is an unspoken agreement that if we as customers will buy into a given branch of their products be it WTO or PTO or Korea or Georgia they will continue to develop it to completion; because we are not study simmers from some academy or some dudes who want to fly some Christen Eagle over Nevada. Most people buy ED products because we are gamers/historical recreationists who want a complete experience and ED knows it. The only reason so many of us throughout the years has given ED money for some incomplete stuff is because we want to help ED to make a complete product - AND ED KNOWS IT.

[Ala13_ManOWar]

2 hours ago, Licenceless said:

The thing about F-5 is that It doesn't need that much work. F5 is beloved by many because of it's simplicity and very well done flight physics. It's the most popular cold war era bird. It's not broken as far as I know. The only thing it needs is updated textures since it was released somewhere in 2016. Nobody ever said F5 is a garbage module and that it's abandoned. So fair Point to ED for doing work on the F5

Yeah, apparently you don't read the forums a lot... F5 had some problems, I mean, it had them, RWR was broken for years, radar wasn't properly working since who knows what patch, yeah old textures is the least of our problems but they were there and some people complained also about that mate (including the cockpit reflection textures)... and so, and so. You mean "there's no problem" since quite recent patches which addressed some of those limping problems, years long problems in some cases. Yeah, right now it's not the worse module about that (because those recent patches) but still it was in need of some renewal for sure. I always liked F-5, it's a small simple aeroplane easy to handle yet hard to master and quite nice to my taste. This new revamp was definitely needed and a very welcome one.

Anyhow, what I was trying to point out is how they work internally without noise and all of a sudden things happens. It's not new, it's happened before, but some people forget that it happens and things are going on whether we know them or not. Sincerely, I rather prefer the "without noise" launch than the ultra hype thing this and that "in the future" but since software is so volatile, today it's going well and tomorrow a bad stopper has put them in months of hard work without apparent movement yet, even if they told us we couldn't the internals of it nor we can do a thing about it whenever it happens. Anyhow, in the end the work gets done without any ado but we get it in due time anyway... Sincerely I like that way more than just plain hype. But all the people complaining for years (yes, not one day, or week, or even month, years...) forget their complaining and when we got whatever it is nobody says a thing about "ah, yes, just yesterday I complained again but we finally got this or that, thanks for the hard work to make it happen, I was wrong yesterday, last week or last month...", but no, not a single word, yet complains keep there forever... and so the bad feeling on people...

 

 

About the other subject, the P-51 got a 3D model revamp not long ago together with new textures, kind of the same for 109, and Spitfire and 190A also got some new textures and 3D model fixes not long ago. Still are those old modules which would be welcome to get a v2.0 like we got here? Yes, totally. And IIRC some mods said in the forums those will eventually get their overhaul either. We just don't know when or how is it going if they're already working on it, or not, because, to be honest, 3D guys here have a lot of work to do with older modules in need of v2.0 (UH-1 perhaps? or whatever of them...). I mean, it's obvious they work internally without noise, things happens and we got them. Some day (who knows when) we'll get those, even the ones we already know they're working in!! Vulkan perhaps? or the long awaited dynamic campaign? or now the new fog has been released, new clouds and new weather engine they talk long ago? or, now the super carrier flight directors are released, the airfield crews they told us also long ago? not to mention the new comms for the whole maps and not only super carrier...

I mean, we do know they work in lots of things at the same time, some of them are easier to implement, some of them are really hard to get there, yet the day we less expect them we get them!! and when we got nice long awaited things people tend to forget how hard it is to develop all of that and how long it took for them to got us there. The next week after a huge release some people start complaining again about "they don't work on anything, they probably dropped this or that and said nothing, I can't wait for this or that and it's taking forever...", people has so short term memory... Yet we got things, and those complains, as said before and what I was trying to say after all, are just an "expectation management" problem and anticipation from some users, because objectively we do get new things even when we don't expect them or we have already forgotten they were working on them...
 

Edited November 23, 2024 by Ala13_ManOWar

[Licenceless]

I give you F5 because I haven't flown it in years, and yes I don't hang out on forums, only in discord and haven't seen people complaining about it there but it is what it is.
You're right, maybe ED has some omega plan and will make everything better. Thing is - they need people buying modules to fund further development. That is the main problem, how am I supposed to keep buying modules, wait patiently and hope that things will get better if what I see is ruins my hopes? I waited and hoped long enough, I've bought enough modules, and after all this time results are very disappointing. I'm not gonna spend any more money or be more lenient just to see them add one detail per year like new gun sounds for pony or new suspension model, especially when every update I open up the changelog and see biblical amount of updates and fixes on modern jets and scroll down to ww2 just to see "P51: adjusted weather in campaign mission" 99% of the time.