VR: Boundary in which Jester Wheel and Manual get rendered is fixed in 3D space and size

[RafaPolit]

The Jester Wheel is giving a lot of issues in the first few hours for VR pilots.  When many are concentrating in the Wheel, I believe the problem resides elsewhere:

- The container window that can display the wheel, map and scratchpad, has a fixed size in 3d space
- This window spans, in my setup, from around 45° left-of-center, to 10° right-of-center.  It also goes really high up (maybe 45° of elevation) to an (in my opinion almost useless) 0° of elevation.  This means that the window takes NO ADVANTAGE of anything below the horizon, making for a very small area to render
- The HB offset, instead of displacing the offsetted boundary, displaces the INTERNAL components inside: so, the wheel is offset, yes, the manual is as well, but the rendering limit is soon reached and things start disappearing behind the boundary very fast
- The UI Resolution configurable in the Special area is very unintuitive... it appears to be a combination of size plus aspect, which makes it impossible to tweak.  In theory, for a particular height, increasing the width should keep the same rendering global size, but move the items to the left... but it's not behaving like that.
- Also, the rendering resolution, in VR, inside that window, is absurdly low and text is rendered very poorly, which compounded with the font decision (which is really difficult to read, not sure what was the reasoning behind that), makes for a difficult to read text
- Also, the option to render the Wheel where you opened it (as opposed to centered) is not respected AT ALL in VR
- Calibrating all this by having to quit the mission and reopen it, makes for a SNAIL SLOWWWWW process.  One tweak, two or three minutes to enter the plane to see it wasn't perfect, rinse and repeat.  And that is for the wheel and its internal radial boxes... the questions from JESTER, which are rendered UNDERNEATH all this, need to actually get to an INS Alignment, taxying to be able to see if it actually fit.
 

As "hunches"...

- not sure if something here is feeding from the actual screen-size of the main config, which, in VR, has nothing to do with the size of the rendered window?
- Maybe if the offsetting actually moved the "container" or "boundary" instead of offsetting the content (or have both?) could aleviate this issue, as well as providing identical controls for vertical positioning?
- Why is this window prevented from rendering further down, wasting almost 50% of the available field of view of the pilot?

 

Thanks for this marvelous module that flies beautifully... but this window is a really pain point at this point.

Best regards,

Rafa.

[RafaPolit]

ps. To "see" the boundary box, you can bring up the manual and drag it around. See it "disappear" at certain points.

[Max Thunder]

+1 the Modul is absolutely fantastic but the jester UI needs a rework. Did a comparison with the F14 UI and it’s much better than the F4s. 

[RealDCSpilot]

5 hours ago, RafaPolit said:

- Also, the option to render the Wheel where you opened it (as opposed to centered) is not respected AT ALL in VR

THIS! (also a problem in the F-14)

It would be so much better if it worked in every direction you are looking at the moment you are pressing the menu button.

Another QoL option would be to be able to temporary use the analog axis of the weapon axis stick to navigate the circle menu and to use the jester context button to choose the targeted option. At the moment the control via head movement is very unreliable.

[Zabuzard]

5 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Another QoL option would be to be able to temporary use the analog axis of the weapon axis stick to navigate the circle menu and to use the jester context button to choose the targeted option. At the moment the control via head movement is very unreliable.

Look in your axis settings "Jester UI Cursor X/Y". This option is already available, thanks.

11 hours ago, RafaPolit said:

ps. To "see" the boundary box, you can bring up the manual and drag it around. See it "disappear" at certain points.

The "boundary box" is unfortuantely out of our control. ED is trying to fix the issue, thank you.

[trev5150]

5 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

Look in your axis settings "Jester UI Cursor X/Y". This option is already available, thanks.

The "boundary box" is unfortuantely out of our control. ED is trying to fix the issue, thank you.

Please explain in detail how to remedy the VR issues of the bottom of the Jester wheel and the entire contextual menu except for the top line of dialog. Don’t just tell people the solution exists, tell them how to use it. 

[aaronwhite]

10 minutes ago, trev5150 said:

Please explain in detail how to remedy the VR issues of the bottom of the Jester wheel and the entire contextual menu except for the top line of dialog. Don’t just tell people the solution exists, tell them how to use it. 

There's more detail provided in the manual on the subject, under the DCS Special Options section

[Gogsie59]

I have made several changes to the special options page as per the manual but it doesnt help in the slightest. No matter the setting the jester wheel is still half hidden. This using a G2. i cant even start the plane cause I cant interact with jester. Can some bright spark share there settings to get this fixed and not just point to the manual which doesnt help. Even better can Heatblur tell me how to fix this.

[RealDCSpilot]

@Zabuzard


I'll try to be more precise, i hope it makes it more clear. Most throttles have this one little analog stick, right? Very practical for radar cursor slewing, weapon sensor slewing etc. right? Right now i can bind this only to Jester UI X/Y or weapon slew X/Y. I can't bind both. So my suggestion is to make it usable for both functionalities(!). If the Jester UI is open it works as Jester UI X/Y and if the Jester UI is not open it works as weapon slew X/Y. Should not be a big problem to code.

[Zabuzard]

5 minutes ago, RealDCSpilot said:

@Zabuzard


I'll try to be more precise, i hope it makes it more clear. Most throttles have this one little analog stick, right? Very practical for radar cursor slewing, weapon sensor slewing etc. right? Right now i can bind this only to Jester UI X/Y or weapon slew X/Y. I can't bind both. So my suggestion is to make it usable for both functionalities(!). If the Jester UI is open it works as Jester UI X/Y and if the Jester UI is not open it works as weapon slew X/Y. Should not be a big problem to code.

I see, DCS actually supports this natively. It is called "Modifiers". You can map the axis to one function and then to another function again while either holding down a switch ("Modifier") or via a toggle ("Switch").

[RafaPolit]

For those having issues, I want to stress that Zabuzard's fix of:

Selecting checkbox under VR of "use DCS resolution".... basically works, with a very important BUT: the size of the window or "boundary" if you will that allows the wheel to render is then commanded by the 2D size of the Screen Resolution configured in the main settings tab.  If you have opted, like me, to go as low as possible because you are using VDXR or SteamVR or whatever other process, then this will render a really small boundary that, still, cannot accommodate the wheel.  

So, what did work for me was to set the 2D screen resolution to 1920x1080, which now fits the wheel + manual, and not modify the UI numbers or offset, leave them in default.

Lower resolutions to that still clipped it for me unless I started tweaking with the manual UI numbers, and then it gets pixelated and off-center very easily.

 

Hope this helps.  Thanks Zabuzard for sticking in with us.

[trev5150]

1 hour ago, Zabuzard said:

I see, DCS actually supports this natively. It is called "Modifiers". You can map the axis to one function and then to another function again while either holding down a switch ("Modifier") or via a toggle ("Switch").

Should NOT have to use modifiers to access basic essential functionality. 

[trev5150]

2 hours ago, RafaPolit said:

Hope this helps.  Thanks Zabuzard for sticking in with us.

You're thanking him for doing his job.

5 hours ago, aaronwhite said:

There's more detail provided in the manual on the subject, under the DCS Special Options section

The offset only provides left/right adjustment. It doesn't help with the UI being buried behind the instrument panel.

[RafaPolit]

1 hour ago, trev5150 said:

You're thanking him for doing his job.

Well, people can do their jobs in a manner that upsets frustrated customers even further (I have had this problem several times here in these forums) or they can do it graciously and being extra helpful and patient.

Given the amount of vocal people in this community that would complaint for everything, think they are entitled to everything and that fixes should happen NOW... I still believe thanks are in order here, even if the person helping out is being paid to do so.  

[RealDCSpilot]

9 hours ago, trev5150 said:

Should NOT have to use modifiers to access basic essential functionality. 

Yeah, having to bind extra buttons, which are a rare ressource, is not the ideal solution. Especially where smart software logic could do wonders.

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Please don't derail the thread. Of course, the help of Zabuzard is very welcome. But we are here to make the F-4E a better product.

[Zabuzard]

14 hours ago, trev5150 said:

The offset only provides left/right adjustment. It doesn't help with the UI being buried behind the instrument panel.

Y Offset isnt offered right now because if Y is incorrect, the source of the problem is usually an incorrect resolution. I.e. the wheel is then likely too big (sharing a screenshot and comparing it to a reference would help spotting this easily).

So my thinking here was that one should rather fix the cause and not symptoms.

It would be easy to offer though, if it turns out to be helpful and necessary.

[trev5150]

4 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

Y Offset isnt offered right now because if Y is incorrect, the source of the problem is usually an incorrect resolution. I.e. the wheel is then likely too big (sharing a screenshot and comparing it to a reference would help spotting this easily).

So my thinking here was that one should rather fix the cause and not symptoms.

It would be easy to offer though, if it turns out to be helpful and necessary.

OK just tell me what settings in that window will work for a Quest 2 running on an RTX 4090. Stop talking around the problem and tell me waht I need to know so I don't spend hours I don't have chasing my tail stopping and starting the game a dozen times and riping what's left of my hair out. At least get me close.

11 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

Yeah, having to bind extra buttons, which are a rare ressource, is not the ideal solution. Especially where smart software logic could do wonders.

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Please don't derail the thread. Of course, the help of Zabuzard is very welcome. But we are here to make the F-4E a better product.

Oh you're one of those self-appointed moderators, huh? Wow, very rare. You must be the CW5 of this place.

Edited May 24, 2024 by trev5150