Jester & INS navigation update

[jojo]

I looked in the manual, but I didn't find anything about navigation update with Jester.

It's difficult to perform a low altitude attack mission without being able to fix the INS drift frome times to times...

[Zabuzard]

I looked in the manual, but I didn't find anything about navigation update with Jester.
It's difficult to perform a low altitude attack mission without being able to fix the INS drift frome times to times...

This feature is planned to come with our Flightplan update where we will introduce various new types of waypoints, such as a VIP/RIP or also points for nav updates :)

[jojo]

8 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

This feature is planned to come with our Flightplan update where we will introduce various new types of waypoints, such as a VIP/RIP or also points for nav updates

Oh, is loft attack working with Jester currently ?

[Zabuzard]

Yes, with a VIP. Because you command the VIP by pressing bomb button when you are over it.

[jojo]

22 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

Yes, with a VIP. Because you command the VIP by pressing bomb button when you are over it.

Thanks.

Just to be sure I'm doing things correctly:

- offset needs N/S & E/W ranges in feets.

- I assume Jester uses the current WP as IP and the next one as target when we tell him the parameters through the WRCS page ?

- Jester tends to switch the waypoint early. Does it have impact on offset guidance ? Do we need to tell Jester to hold on IP waypoint.

Maybe we could tag the waypoints in mission's editor with #IP and #TGT as names to preset the parameters ?

22 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

Yes, with a VIP. Because you command the VIP by pressing bomb button when you are over it.

Thanks.

Just to be sure I'm doing things correctly:

- offset needs N/S & E/W ranges in feets.

- I assume Jester uses the current WP as IP and the next one as target when we tell him the parameters through the WRCS page ?

- Jester tends to switch the waypoint early. Does it have impact on offset guidance ? Do we need to tell Jester to hold on IP waypoint ?

Maybe we could tag the waypoints in mission's editor with #IP and #TGT as names to preset the parameters ?

[Zabuzard]

6 minutes ago, jojo said:

Maybe we could tag the waypoints in mission's editor with #IP and #TGT as names to preset the parameters ?

These things are all planned

6 minutes ago, jojo said:

- Jester tends to switch the waypoint early. Does it have impact on offset guidance ? Do we need to tell Jester to hold on IP waypoint.

The WRCS doesnt care for waypoints or anything at all. It understands you are at the IP the moment you press the Bomb Button. Then it will start counting the distance you travelled using the INS. The navigation system has no influence.

[jojo]

14 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

These things are all planned

The WRCS doesnt care for waypoints or anything at all. It understands you are at the IP the moment you press the Bomb Button. Then it will start counting the distance you travelled using the INS. The navigation system has no influence.

But there is also a roll guidance, isn’t it ?

Jester has to enter N/E and E/W offset. My question are:

- does he assume offset from current waypoint and next waypoint ?

- when does he input offset into WRCS ?

[Zabuzard]

But there is also a roll guidance, isn’t it ?
Jester has to enter N/E and E/W offset. My question are:
- does he assume offset from current waypoint and next waypoint ?
- when does he input offset into WRCS ?

Your waypoints really play no role here.
He inputs the offset values when you click on "Tell Jester" in the Bombing Calculator. The plane starts doing the math and counting the distance the moment you designate the IP by pressing the bombing button while overflying it visually.
Again, no waypoints or anything alike influence this.
The moment you designated the IP, the plane knows the target coordinates by adding the offset values to the IP coordinates. And then it can do the math to find you a release solution.

[jojo]

20 minutes ago, Zabuzard said:

Your waypoints really play no role here.
He inputs the offset values when you click on "Tell Jester" in the Bombing Calculator. The plane starts doing the math and counting the distance the moment you designate the IP by pressing the bombing button while overflying it visually.
Again, no waypoints or anything alike influence this.
The moment you designated the IP, the plane knows the target coordinates by adding the offset values to the IP coordinates. And then it can do the math to find you a release solution.

OK thanks.

I understood that the guidance started when pressing bomb release, but I wanted to be sure that Jester was computing offset with the WRCS board “tell Jester”.

Thanks for your patience

[Mikkall]

JMHO... but it seems as though, at least with dumb bombs, LOFT is somewhat janky.  bombs are hitting either near x2 as far-further than intended, or that much short.   There's not a lot of info in the manual

Edited June 21, 2024 by Mikkall

[Zabuzard]

JMHO... but it seems as though, at least with dumb bombs, LOFT is somewhat janky.  bombs are hitting either near x2 as far-further than intended, or that much short.   There's not a lot of info in the manual

From my experience, thats usually due to pilot not holding the parameters good enough.
Often also due to confusing TAS with IAS.
During the LOFT, make sure to fly the correct Gs (use the flight director and follow the needles).
In LOFT it is of course also crucial that you are good at pressing the Bomb Button exactly over your IP. Any offset there would directly translate to a target miss.
Keep in mind that this mode is pretty much timer based only. Any minor mistake will transfer over to the target directly. There is no fancy automatic computation adjusting for pilot error.

The mode is primarily meant either for nuclear delivery or for lofting many many bombs, ideally in a group with other aircraft. As in, increasing bomb quantity to score a hit. If you ripple 10 bombs, you can probably expect one to hit a building. But that's about the kind of accuracy you expect from the mode.

Keep practicing and carefully observe your altitude and TAS, as well as how good you are following the yellow needles.

[Mikkall]

33 minutes ago, Zabuzard said:

From my experience, thats usually due to pilot not holding the parameters good enough.
Often also due to confusing TAS with IAS.
During the LOFT, make sure to fly the correct Gs (use the flight director and follow the needles).
In LOFT it is of course also crucial that you are good at pressing the Bomb Button exactly over your IP. Any offset there would directly translate to a target miss.
Keep in mind that this mode is pretty much timer based only. Any minor mistake will transfer over to the target directly. There is no fancy automatic computation adjusting for pilot error.

The mode is primarily meant either for nuclear delivery or for lofting many many bombs, ideally in a group with other aircraft. As in, increasing bomb quantity to score a hit. If you ripple 10 bombs, you can probably expect one to hit a building. But that's about the kind of accuracy you expect from the mode.

Keep practicing and carefully observe your altitude and TAS, as well as how good you are following the yellow needles.

Ya, that's what I'm thinking too.  However,  I spent the last couple hours trying to LOFT 12 M-117s with a .21 interval and 1st bomb on Tgt set to 6, just to get a big spread.  Tried it from a close ip (2nm) and from one further away (7nm).   Tried it from a 500ft run-in, and a 1000ft run in.   Shooting at an airfield with targets stretched all along the length of both sides of the runway.  I've barely had a single bomb hit anywhere on the airfield.  Just doesn't make sense.   Seriously, just screwing around with a Immediate-O/S attempt and at least they hit the airfield (which shocked me).

Speaking of unknowns... TOSS is an option on the Delivery Mode Selector.  ~Nothing~ I can find in the manual.  Anyone have any thoughts?  

[Zabuzard]

Ya, that's what I'm thinking too.  However,  I spent the last couple hours trying to LOFT 12 M-117s with a .21 interval and 1st bomb on Tgt set to 6, just to get a big spread.  Tried it from a close ip (2nm) and from one further away (7nm).   Tried it from a 500ft run-in, and a 1000ft run in.   Shooting at an airfield with targets stretched all along the length of both sides of the runway.  I've barely had a single bomb hit anywhere on the airfield.  Just doesn't make sense.   Seriously, just screwing around with a Immediate-O/S attempt and at least they hit the airfield (which shocked me).

Speaking of unknowns... TOSS is an option on the Delivery Mode Selector.  ~Nothing~ I can find in the manual.  Anyone have any thoughts?  

TOSS is mislabeled, its O/S.

Unfortunate to hear that LOFT is no bueno for you. It works great on my end. Perhaps you can send in a short working SP track (with instructions what you entered into the UI) or in this case probably better, record a quick video?
It should be relatively easy to then identify if there is perhaps a pilot mistake or not :)