SA13 missing from RWR?

[Nadel]

(it's possible I misunderstand) but I believe the SA13 should spike you with the ranging radar when it fires.

Fly an airplane directly at an SA13 at 4000 AGL

F18 RWR: spike as the launcher fires

F14 RWR: spike as the launcher fires

F4 RWR: no spike/nails

Is this a limitation of the F4 RWR? Or a bug?

[Zabuzard]

I cant comment on other aircraft, but the F4 RWR indicates PRF changes.

There are several things to consider and SAM sites are not just a simple "search or track mode on/off". For example, they can also track you optically without going into some form of "track mode" on the radar. And even those would not necessarily mean a change in PRF that would be recognizable. Further, the RWR can not detect all bands.

That said, we can have a look at your specific scenario to perhaps give further details of whats exactly happening. If you happen to have a very short SP track, that would make it a little bit simpler. Cheers.

[Nadel]

I confirmed what another poster suggested, if you enable unknown, the SA13 does show up as an unknown radar. I'm not sure if that's intended or not.

Attaching a test mission with an F4, F5, and F14. Both the F5 and F14 will get a 13 RWR spike right before launch, the F4 only indicates unknown, and only if you have unknown on.

SA13-RWR-test.miz -- sample mission to see F4, F5, or F14 get shot at by an SA13
f4_rwr_vs_sa13.trk -- F4 getting shot down with "unknown off", and no RWR mark (screenshot annotated with blue)

f4_rwr_vs_sa13_unknown_on.trk -- F4 getting shot down with "unknown on", and RWR "U" (screenshot annotated with red)

f5_f4_f14_rwr_vs_sa13.trk -- comparison of F5, F4, and F14 RWRs when flying into the SA13

SA13-RWR-test.miz

f4_rwr_vs_sa13_unknown_on.trkf4_rwr_vs_sa13.trkf5_f4_f14_rwr_vs_sa13.trk

null

[Zabuzard]

The Phantoms RWR is hardware limited to be able to only map 64 recognized platforms to symbols per file (land vs sea file), which are directly mapped to the expected properties. You can see this also in our manual: https://f4.manuals.heatblur.se/systems/defensive_systems/radar_warning_receiver.html#land-and-air-based-threats

The SA-13 is not among this set of symbols, so it falls into the Unknown category.

Now, I cannot comment on how exactly a SA-13 works, but observing what our RWR sees in-game shows that the SA-13 does not change its radar properties during search and launch phase, it always stays like this:

The 2000 PRF is the typical search-frequency. The RWR detects, among other things, PRF changes - if properties dont change in a way that the RWR classifies it as a launch, it cant display that.

Perhaps it is using radio or optical guidance? You would have to ask ED on this part. Cheers

Edited July 4, 2024 by Zabuzard

[QuiGon]

57 minutes ago, Zabuzard said:

The Phantoms RWR is hardware limited to be able to only map 64 recognized platforms to symbols per file (land vs sea file), which are directly mapped to the expected properties. You can see this also in our manual: https://f4.manuals.heatblur.se/systems/defensive_systems/radar_warning_receiver.html#land-and-air-based-threats

The SA-13 is not among this set of symbols, so it falls into the Unknown category.

Now, I cannot comment on how exactly a SA-13 works, but observing what our RWR sees in-game shows that the SA-13 does not change its radar properties during search and launch phase, it always stays like this:

The 2000 PRF is the typical search-frequency. The RWR detects PRF changes - no change means no missile launch recognized.

Perhaps it is using radio or optical guidance? You would have to ask ED on this part. Cheers

The SA-13 is firing an IR guided missile. The radar is only for acquisition and ranging, but not for tracking.

[Zabuzard]

Perfect, then it works as expected