Schrödinger's ground loop

[Awger]

Still getting oriented in the F-4 ... flew a mission with an AI wingman, shot a MiG in the face with an AIM-7 and then ran down an Su-17, then RTB'ed to Nellis .... long approach (too low) and my wingman was right there with me until we were just about at the threshold, then he decided I was too low and did his own thing -- climbed up a bit and landed a little further up the runway from me.

I touched down at the marks and Jester was impressed.

Wingman wrecked his gear and wiped out. I didn't notice until I turned off at the end of the runway.

I recorded the track. If I change to F2 camera and watch #2 during the approach, he never crashes -- but he does slow down to taxi speed and then cuts across the grass to the taxiway. If I don't watch him, then he wipes out.

Is this DCS doing the replay-thing, or is there something up with the F-4 AI?

[MAXsenna]

Yeah, the replays are a hit and miss. Hopefully they will eventually totally rebuild it, as it's actually a debugging feature.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Awger]

I know the replays are dodgy, especially in an SP mission ... I was more interested in why #2 wiped out, as we both seemed to have a good touchdown.

Just re-watched replay again (no cam changes) ... #2 touches down just ahead on right side of runway, immediately pops chute; I roll past on left side of runway and lose sight, pop chute, and roll to the end of the runway. Log shows #2 lands, followed by me landing, and then ai abort mission and #2 pilot and wso eject, then another ai abort mission.

I was a little close to the centerline when I rolled past, but I wasn't that close... and the log didn't show any collision or damage. Tacview shows consistent 100-102ft separation on approach, shows me touching down first (separation 64ft), and minimum separation after #2 touches down of 59ft.

I mostly fly F-86, and their AI is crap in the pattern -- they never do what they're told, and formation landings are nearly impossible. And, don't ever try to exit the runway at the first taxiway, you'll get run over.

This is the first time I've flown an approach in the F-4 with an AI wingman, and it was by accident... I was just screwing around with the TACAN and decided to land because I wound up near enough to Nellis. In all honesty, I was positively gobsmacked when I saw #2 tuck in, drop gear, and then hang in my mirror all the way to the threshold (very cool).

Dunno how much of this is default AI behavior vs F-4 specific behavior, but I'd like to better understand why this happened so that I can improve my interactions with the AI.

[MAXsenna]

I see. Well, formation landing has never worked for me.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

DCS AI can be quite wonky. I don’t think it’s the F-4 AI specifically…

I’ve seen the exact same thing you describe as well.

To give an example of how silly the AI can be: I once had a wingman A-10C AI come fly directly above me during take-off, right after rotation. The result was that DCS “credited” me with a blue-on-blue A/A kill, while it was actually the other way around

[Awger]

Well, at least it's not just me.

@Raven (Elysian Angel) I just looked at your system specs... I'm running a 5800X3D, RTX 3080ti, and a G2v2 with OpenXR, will have to give your settings a try.