Does anyone know when save game feature is coming?

[Dangerzone]

It is coming, and I suspect it's a prerequisite to the DCE so my guess is that we're probably going to see the save feature released first prior to the DCE for public beta testing.

I don't think ED can make it happen any quicker than what they already are though. SC plane directors was 4x the expected/budgeted work. I have a suspicion that this feature is probably far more complex and beyond that in terms of expectation and then realization of just how much work is going to be needed to make it happen - especially since DCS wasn't originally designed for such a feature. 

As for ETA - I expect ED to be tight lipped on this until it's ready for release. So yeah - who knows, it could be in the next major release. Or it could be 4 years away. I suspect it'll just appear when it appears without prior updates as to it's progress and timeframe.

[cfrag]

10 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

It is coming

I *really* hope it is - and I'm hoping for "save and continue" of a mission rather than "save and create a new mission based on what is saved" - we already have that from third parties, and it is not what I call "save".

I'm currently not convinced that it's in the cards, though. All missions in DCS currently run on Lua in DCS. To be able to save&continue, ED first have to be able to save&continue a Lua script. I don't think that the kind folk at ED have the required talent inhouse to do that - IIRC they weren't even able to shoehorn the existing Lua JIT compiler environment into DCS, which isn't as complex technology-wise as implementing Lua save&continue. 

Once we start seeing major changes to DCS's Lua environment (and I'm hoping JIT, threads, save&continue) we have a good shot at a save&continue mission feature.

Here's to hoping.

Edited December 19, 2024 by cfrag

[BIGNEWY]

We will share more news when we are ready to.

We have more than enough talent in the team. 

Thank you 

[Dangerzone]

13 hours ago, cfrag said:

I *really* hope it is - and I'm hoping for "save and continue" of a mission rather than "save and create a new mission based on what is saved" - we already have that from third parties, and it is not what I call "save".

I'm currently not convinced that it's in the cards, though. All missions in DCS currently run on Lua in DCS. To be able to save&continue, ED first have to be able to save&continue a Lua script. I don't think that the kind folk at ED have the required talent inhouse to do that - IIRC they weren't even able to shoehorn the existing Lua JIT compiler environment into DCS, which isn't as complex technology-wise as implementing Lua save&continue. 

Once we start seeing major changes to DCS's Lua environment (and I'm hoping JIT, threads, save&continue) we have a good shot at a save&continue mission feature.

Here's to hoping.

I think it's definitely on the cards, even more so after your post. (Although BN confirmed it anyway). The reason I say that, is that your comments have made me realized that there's more directions that ED can go with this. Depending on which way they go - they may not even need to make much changes to the LUA environment (although I hope they're not going for that type of feature). 

To explain, these are now 3 potential pathways I can see for the save/resume feature:

1. Have it save everything (including each players settings. Radio settings, damage, weapon status, nav, every parameter on the plane), so either the players can resume where they left off, or AI will take over for the players that aren't online. For multiplayer - this would need to be done in a way (if they even consider doing it) that the switch between player and AI would need to be seamless - so if the server saved, and then restarted with only 1/2 the players, you wouldn't lose half the planes, but they would continue on the original path/objective that the player chose as AI, until a human player spawned in over the top of an AI slot.
   
   That's some serious development required in there for the AI - not to mention the saving all the parameters (although I expect that's coming with TDC). Then add not only to resume, but to allow for the different possible scenario's when resuming such as which players/slots may be re-occupied on the reload, vs AI to take over unoccupied slots - plus what to do with objectives if AI takes over. (As well as how to have players who may be a few minutes late be able to select one of those AI aircraft, and take control again).
   
   Consideration would also need to be done so that when a human takes over AI post mission resume (or vise versa) - it doesn't rubber band and potentially defeat incoming missiles, or take out another unit that's flying formation/trail/ahead etc while loading in the details. 
   
   This would be a real cool feature. (For human players to be able to take over AI aircraft) and would take the potential for DCS, especially in MP communities to a whole new level (depending on how they implement it, and what access they give mission designers/scripters/app dev's, etc). 
   
   In this case, I would imagine save/resume would come before the DCE, as if this is the plan - it would definitely be needed for the DCE. I'd also expect DTC to come before the save/resume feature, as the functionality to load/restore weapon parameters, waypoints, radio settings, radar settings, etc would be the same used for the DTC for the save/load feature as well, and DTC would be first to implement. If so - I'd expect to wait until DTC is released first before seeing any save/restore feature.
   
   I'm really hoping that this is the path ED have chosen to go - as this is what I always envisioned with a save/resume feature. Utmost respect for the dev's that opted to take on such a task, as I don't see this as being a small feature at all. (The amount of dev required for this wouldn't be small).
   
    
2. Cheat and take a shortcut. Still have it save as much as can be used in a .MIZ file (Radio frequencies, waypoints, settings, damage, weapon status, nav, every parameter on the plane), and have this inserted into a new .miz file as a static in-air spawn slot so the player can resume where they left off, along with the state of the battleground (like is currently done) as well as the location of each player (unit type, altitude, direction, fuel state, weapon state, etc).
   
   This would be closer to what we have already seen with .lua scripts - with the exception of:
   
   (a) adding in static in-air spawn slots for players to continue (unless people are already doing this with scripts - I can see it being potentially possible already with .lua). Although I'm not sure if anyone has gone to the effort of going that far, as so far I believe most missions using this are more to just save the battleground state).
   
   (b) Include DTC functionality - so that the planes current settings (weapon settings/parameters, waypoints, radio setup, radar setup, etc) would be restored on the reload feature. This would basically use the same functionality for DTC to 'setup' the planes waypoints, settings, etc, so if they're going this path - I would imagine that we'd see DTC prior to seeing the load/save feature implemented. 
   
   My personal view though is that this would be a cop-out and short sighted, as it wouldn't take into consideration MP missions continuing where not all players are ready at the start. You could lose 1/2 the planes in a squadron for instance, which could leave those remaining at a disadvantage.  Don't get me wrong - it would still be nice to have this now - but it would only be useful in some scenario's. 
   
   That is of course, even if the save/resume feature will support MP - they may just go with support for SP given the understanding is that SP is the majority of their customer base?
   
   I don't see this requiring major changes to implement and would allow for a save/resume without too much effort and could almost work with the current infrastructure. (Maybe adding in a few more API calls for lua to accomplish this including of course the DTC functionality). 
   
   I really hope they don't go this route. 
   
    
3. Or as you've stated - just copy/duplicate what already exists in 3rd party. (Just save the state of the battleground, not the individual players), so when the mission comes back online, it has the battlefield state, but is basically a new mission from where the last one left off and players have to re-spawn at spawn points.
   
   While it's an option, I don't expect that ED are going down this path. (as otherwise I would envisage save/restore would already be here. Because if hobbyists have been doing this for years and can whip something up so quickly - how much more a team of Dev's dedicated to this feature should already have it done). So at this stage I would place my expectations that this is not the way they're heading. 

 

Saying all this, have ED announced what will be included in the save/resume feature yet? (If so - please point me to an announcement/post, as I'd love to read up on their intentions).

I'm hoping that their aiming for something like #1 - which is why I see the save/resume and DCE being intertwined with each other and the save feature coming before DCE. But after your post, I realize that #2 are possible options ED could be exploring too. (Not expecting #3 simply due to the fact that ED haven't released this already). 

The other consideration is, given that Dynamic slots are currently causing issues for the supercarrier (planes spawning on each other), as well as issues with being unable to spawn due to the 'waiting' issue on occasions - I'd say that this would need to be fixed prior to the save feature being released as the save feature would only compound these issue, so I retract my initial guess that the save feature could be coming as soon as the next update. (Unless of course they make a rule that the save feature excludes resuming from dynamic spawns - which is always an option for them, in the same way that CA or Airboss currently does not support VR. They could decide to implement it half way as an EA feature for say SP only, or static spawns only, and say they'll work on the other half later in the future). 

It's fun to explore/consider/guess ideas. (Like kids guessing presents under the christmas tree ... except they know how many 'sleeps' remain until they get it. ) ,I guess we won't know for sure what it will take until it's announced. It's quite possibly ED themselves may not know what the final product will look like at the moment if they need to change direction along the way due to unforeseen challenges, so it makes sense that ED remains tight lipped on this until they know for sure themselves what the final product will be.

[cfrag]

12 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

It's fun to explore/consider/guess ideas.

It sure is. Then again, if ED develop and add something (anything) to DCS and call that a "save" feature, that is that - it would still be better than nothing. Pretty much like the new multi-object band selection feature that was added to ME. It may have the silliest, goofiest and worst UX that the world has ever seen (a modal band select that needs activation and de-activation tells us everything that we need to know; adding modal move on top of that seems almost logical), and it may not cover the the three most likely use cases that mission creators would want to use multi-object select for (changing the selection's coalition, unit type, or name). It's still leaps and bounds better than having nothing, so it is a step up.

I'm hoping for some form of in-game save, and I think that it will only serve to make DCS better. Many of the missions that I have created in the past two years have outgrown single-session resolvability (meaning that in these missions players can't achieve all goals within 2-3 hours, and require multiple sorties often in multiple types), so any form of save can help to make these missions better. Such a feature should really help making server-based missions better because a regular save&restart can help keeping the servers stable (the two servers that I rent regularly die of memory starvation and require a full boot once a day). I have implemented my own persistence for bigger missions, but of course if this was supported out-of-the-box, it would greatly increase the attractiveness of complex missions for everyone.

Edited December 20, 2024 by cfrag