Russian Radar Discussion

[Groove]

Check out the modern SAMs radars and the latest generation of russian AESA and PESA radars and we`ll talk again.

Do the russian posses the technology to produce their own AESA T/R Modules nowadays? Does anyone have latest news on that one? Lately i barely have time to keep up to date...

[topol-m]

Do the russian posses the technology to produce their own AESA T/R Modules nowadays? Does anyone have latest news on that one? Lately i barely have time to keep up to date...

 

They certainly do. The NIIR Phazotron developed the latest of the Zhuk series - the Zhuk-A (AE) AESA radar for the upgraded mig-29 versions, but most likely will offer an adaptation for the flanker series too (mainly for the su-30s). A further more advanced version is being developed - the FGA-35. The T/R modules are produced by Mikran and Scientific Research Institute of Semiconductor Instruments (NII PP) from Tomsk. Mass production is likely to begin in 2010-2012, the export could begin at any time (it is expected India to be one of the largest contractors and probably even a partner in the production, other expected contractors are Yemen, Eritrea, Algeria).

Edited May 14, 2009 by topol-m

[Groove]

Im looking forward for the russian mass production of T/R modules. I will update my knowledge on this topic. Thanks for the infos btw.

[Pilotasso]

Always ? Demonstrably untrue, and I'm surprised such a regular on threads like this would think so....

 

 

Show me. I already suspect what your going to say. But I got a couple of dark horses waiting for that. ;)

[Pilotasso]

Precisely. There were periods of time where US have been more advanced but to generalize that they have always been more advanced in radar technology is far from true. Check out the modern SAMs radars and the latest generation of russian AESA and PESA radars and we`ll talk again.

 

 

There are many AESA and PESA radars currently. Theres no reliable data nowhere to be found to compare figures but the fact Russia still produces and rechearches PESA's might be indication that they didnt overcome all compromises AESA radars (with LPI features) brings to the table VS PESA. US has all but passed that phase long ago. Their fighters are moving on from mechanical directly to LPI AESA. Not only that, they were first to do so in quantity after decades of consistent mechanical radar advantage over its counterparts.

[Groove]

Im sceptical about russian efforts to mass produce a decent AESA radar in the next 5 years. Or better said to mass product a decent / top notch AEASA radar. But hey, they can prove me wrong !

 

I had some news about russian AESA radar in one of the latest mags, will try to post them.

 

IIRC F-22s will get two addidtional AESA radars on the nose flanks with the D upgrade, at least that was planned some time ago.

[topol-m]

Zhuk-AE is pretty decent. Though little info for it is available the announced FGA-35 stats show it is one of the most potent AESA radars. The F-22s AN/APG-77 is better no doubt, but i think the FGA-35 is more than a match for the radars used by most EU or US aircraft today.

[Pilotasso]

Any sources for the FGA-35?

 

Go no info about it.

[GGTharos]

A match, maybe - more than, not likely. Last I spoke with someone who worked in the MiG bureau Russia still had problems with manufacturing high quality electronic components.

 

Realize that TR manufacturing is HARD, not because the components are 'hard to get', but because they have to be very, very high quality. Quality was the problem - this leads to excessive heating which leads to failure, etc.

 

Zhuk-AE is pretty decent. Though little info for it is available the announced FGA-35 stats show it is one of the most potent AESA radars. The F-22s AN/APG-77 is better no doubt, but i think the FGA-35 is more than a match for the radars used by most EU or US aircraft today.

[topol-m]

SPECIAL REPORT

Date Posted: 13-Mar-2007

INTERNATIONAL DEFENCE REVIEW - APRIL 01, 2007

________________________________________

MiG showcases Indian MRCA offering

 

...

 

The aircraft's avionics system has been integrated into the fire-control and navigation system by Ramenskoye Design Bureau (RPKB). All of the devices are interconnected by a data bus compatible with MIL-STD-1553B and controlled by a computational system made by RPKB. The MiG-35's main fire-control sensor is the Zhuk-AE radar with active electronically scanned antenna (AESA) made by Phazotron- Nauchno-Issledovatelsky Institut Radiostroeniya (NIIR) Corporation in Moscow. A mock-up of the preliminary variant of this radar was showcased at the 7th International Aviation and Space Salon MAKS exhibition at Zhukovsky in August 2005. The radar had a 700 mm diameter antenna made of 1,088 transmit-receive (TR) modules (272 packs with four modules each), but at 450 kg was considered too heavy. In the next design, the weight of individual components was reduced, cut-outs in the radar body were made and a light magnesium alloy used.

 

To further reduce the weight to 220 kg the antenna diameter was decreased to 575 mm and the number of TR modules reduced to 680 (170 packs with four modules each). An experimental Zhuk-AE radar (the previous planned designation Zhuk-MAE was abandoned) was made with this design at the end of 2006 and then installed on the MiG-35 shown at Aero India. Zhuk-AE was due to start flight tests in March as the first Russian radar with active electronic scanning and another prototype radar enter testing at the same time.

An initial batch of 12 Zhuk-AE radars is due to be manufactured in 2008. The first stage Zhuk-AE radar (also designated FGA29) shown at Aero India is a modernised version of the mechanically scanned Zhuk-ME radar fitted with new AESA antenna. It uses the Zhuk-ME radar computing system including data processor, signal processor and software as well as the clock generator. The Zhuk-AE/FGA29 radar can be built by converting Zhuk-ME radars. Phazotron-NIIR will probably offer this manufacturing option for users of Zhuk-ME such as Algeria, Eritrea, India and Yemen.

Threat tracking

The Zhuk-AE/FGA29 is a multifunction X-band radar (3 cm wavelength), which can track and engage air, ground and sea targets. The radar in its present form has a search range of 130 km against fighter aircraft with a radar cross-section of 5 m2.-Phazotron claims that thanks to selecting proper range between radiating elements, a ± deflection of the antenna beam was achieved without parasite side lobes. The radar can track up to 30 air targets and engage six of them simultaneously.

 

The second stage radar, designated Zhuk-AE/FGA35, will be fitted to production MiG-35 fighter aircraft. They will receive a new computing system and new multifunction wideband generator. According to Phazotron, these changes mean AESA technology can be better exploited and new radar operation modes introduced. Additionally, due to a reduction in the size and weight of the radar modules, the antenna mirror can be moved further away from the nose of the aircraft and its diameter increased. The FGA35 will operate with a 700 mm diameter antenna with between 1,000 and 1,100 TR modules. The present design suggests there will be 1,064 modules, but slight changes are possible. The range of Zhuk-AE/FGA35 will be 200 km (for a 5 m2 target). The radar will be capable of tracking up to 60 air targets and engaging six of them.

...

[GGTharos]

Now the FGA-35 becomes more interesting - at 1000-1100 TR modules, it matches the count of the smallest US manufactured AESAs (F-18, F-35, etc).

[Wilde]

The amount of T/R-modules is not only limited by the capabilities of the "regime" producing it. Maybe, just maybe, there's not enough space in the nose cone of a MiG-35 to place a 1000mm AESA-antenna with 2000 modules there...

 

From what I've read Russia isn't producing T/R-modules on its own. Maybe they're assembling them themselves, but afaik they lack certain core compounds such as this Gallium-whatsisname stuff. But since this is a mass-product in cellular phone production it's apparently cheap to import. And it's not considered a classified/non-export technology anymore in western countries.

[GGTharos]

Not in this case ;)

They basically went from a development/demo radar to a production one.

 

The amount of T/R-modules is not only limited by the capabilities of the "regime" producing it. Maybe, just maybe, there's not enough space in the nose cone of a MiG-35 to place a 1000mm AESA-antenna with 2000 modules there...

[Wilde]

Not in this case ;)

They basically went from a development/demo radar to a production one.

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say. But if my memory serves me well the demo-version had less than 1000 modules. And it also wasn't moveable iirc.

 

This is their first go at it. Someday they'll be more experienced. Then they maybe can mass-produce a more dense, more advanced version at a reasonable price. Let's not forget they're not trying to supply a dozens-of-billion Dollar DoD-project here. They're applying for an Indian project. No point in having a radar more expensive then the actual plane.

[Groove]

Initial testing of a first small AESA radar on a Mig-35 will start next month.

 

I will post more details next monday.

[topol-m]

Initial testing of a first small AESA radar on a Mig-35 will start next month.

 

I will post more details next monday.

 

Thanks. That`s going to be interesting.

[Alfa]

The amount of T/R-modules is not only limited by the capabilities of the "regime" producing it. Maybe, just maybe, there's not enough space in the nose cone of a MiG-35 to place a 1000mm AESA-antenna with 2000 modules there...

 

The "baseline" MiG-29 had the N019 radar with a 700mm cassegrain antenna. The new and upgraded MiG-29 versions are currently being exported with the Zhuk-ME radar, which has a 624mm planar antenna(slotted array) - the reduction in diameter was in order to increase scan limits in azimuth to +/- 85 degrees.

 

The passive and active phased array versions of the Zhuk-ME - Zhuk-MFE(PESA) and Zhuk-AE(AESA) respectively - are scanned electronically and the antenna is mounted in a fixed position, so they don't need "clearance" to move inside the radome and thus the full inner radome diameter can be exploited for a larger antenna.

 

However, the initial Zhuk-AE AESA actually has a smaller antenna yet - I suspected that this had something to do with weight - i.e. to retain the weight of the mechanically actuated Zhuk-ME(220 kg) and thus make it interchangable with this without upsetting the weight balance of the MiG-29.....this seems to be confirmed by the quote Topol-M posted.

 

But I agree that even with weight issues being resolved by use of new materials in a new version of the Zhuk-AE, its unlikely that the MiG-29 radome could house a radar antenna much larger than 700mm in diameter - and certainly not a 1000mm one :) .

[Groove]

Thanks. That`s going to be interesting.

 

Taken from a longer article about MiG 29 and MiG 35 and translated from polish flight magazin "Lotnictwo", Issue 4/2009:

 

"Vladimir Barkovskij, vice-general director of RSK MiG announced during Aero India February 2009 that in May 2009 a new constructed Mig-35 will take off. A airframe which was initially built to be a Mig-29K for the indian navy will be used. A Zhuk-AE radar will be installed with a big antenna with more than 1000 T/R Modules. Right now the Mig-35D demonstrator is being tested with a experimental radar version with 680 Modules."

 

There are two pages full with interesting infos about Mig-35s. Because of possible copy right issues i wont translate the whole article and put it online.

[topol-m]

There are two pages full with interesting infos about Mig-35s. Because of possible copy right issues i wont translate the whole article and put it online.

 

Oh no. We need that stuff. :( Can`t you paraphrase it, at least the most important part - that shouldn`t be a copy right issue.