I think I figured out trim. And a suggestion for ED for FFB joysticks.

[Sherlock]

Ok, just like everybody else, I really had no idea how to get this thing to fly without the nose constantly bobbing up and down. I read "hold the trim while manuevering, release when stable". Is that right? Cus It really seems to make a huge difference. Why does the helo seem so controllable with the trim button depressed? What does holding it do the stability systems?

 

Also, a little hint for FFB joystick users- If you think about it, you can't have ANY curve in your axis. Why? Because after you trim, your joystick is not centered and toward the extents will actually exaggerate your movements. For example, in trimmed level flight the joystick is well forward of center, so the slighest movement will actually exaggerate the pitch movement causing MORE oscillations than a joystick with a linear curve. My suggestion is to leave the curve completely linear, and turn down sensitivity to 70% or so.

 

*It would be nice if ED would change how this worked for FFB joysticks, and apply the curve to the trimmed position rather than center, so the above problem doesn't happen and would allow finer control over the cyclic.

 

BTW, I am a real-world private pilot (fixed), and have spent about 20 minutes at the controls of a friends Hughes 500- helis are incredibly hard to fly. My brother actually had, er, *relations* with his girlfriend while flying a 172. Doing that in a heli would be utter suicide.

[slug88]

Ok, just like everybody else, I really had no idea how to get this thing to fly without the nose constantly bobbing up and down. I read "hold the trim while manuevering, release when stable". Is that right? Cus It really seems to make a huge difference. Why does the helo seem so controllable with the trim button depressed? What does holding it do the stability systems?

 

Also, a little hint for FFB joystick users- If you think about it, you can't have ANY curve in your axis. Why? Because after you trim, your joystick is not centered and toward the extents will actually exaggerate your movements. For example, in trimmed level flight the joystick is well forward of center, so the slighest movement will actually exaggerate the pitch movement causing MORE oscillations than a joystick with a linear curve. My suggestion is to leave the curve completely linear, and turn down sensitivity to 70% or so.

 

*It would be nice if ED would change how this worked for FFB joysticks, and apply the curve to the trimmed position rather than center, so the above problem doesn't happen and would allow finer control over the cyclic.

 

BTW, I am a real-world private pilot (fixed), and have spent about 20 minutes at the controls of a friends Hughes 500- helis are incredibly hard to fly. My brother actually had, er, *relations* with his girlfriend while flying a 172. Doing that in a heli would be utter suicide.

 

Holding down the trimmer button has an identical effect to engaging the Flight Director. That is, all AP hold channels are suspended, while all the AP dampening channels remain active. In other words, the AP will stop trying to maintain the previously set pitch, heading, bank, and/or altitude, but it will still work to prevent oscillations and rapid changes to those parameters.

 

The reason the aircraft may seem very unstable when maneuvering without holding down the trimmer/engaging FD, is because the AP assumes you want it to maintain the previously trimmed for flight parameters, and so resists any deviation from said parameters, including your control inputs.

 

I have found that the most fluid and stable control results from a combination of two trimming methods:

1. For major course changes, I first depress the trimmer, then apply control input and stabilize the aircraft along the new heading and flight regime, and then release the trimmer.

2. For minor corrections, such as heading changes of a degree or two, or minor pitch and bank corrections, I apply the control input, stabilize the aircraft along the new regime, and then press and release the trimmer. So long as the correction is small enough, there is no bobbing or instability.

 

It's taken me a few weeks to get comfortable with the above routine, but now I find flying the Shark to be extremely fluid and intuitive. When I first flew the Deployment campaign, at which time I had about a week of practice with the sim, I found it very difficult to keep formation with the Hind flight lead. I just started it again yesterday, and found that maintaining a 10m echelon formation was almost effortless. So, the point is, take a few days of practice to internalize the functions of the AP and trim, get a few weeks of practice, and controlling this lovely helicopter will come as naturally as riding a bike.

Edited May 17, 2009 by slug88

[Sherlock]

Holding down the trimmer button has an identical effect to engaging the Flight Director. That is, all AP hold channels are suspended, while all the AP dampening channels remain active. In other words, the AP will stop trying to maintain the previously set pitch, heading, bank, and/or altitude, but it will still work to prevent oscillations and rapid changes to those parameters.

 

Ok, then, that makes sense, although I don't understand the flight director. So am I using it correctly then? i.e. hold the trim button when manuevering, and letting go when in the desired attitude?

[slug88]

Ok, then, that makes sense, although I don't understand the flight director. So am I using it correctly then? i.e. hold the trim button when manuevering, and letting go when in the desired attitude?

 

Yes, I (and I believe most others here?) would say that is the correct method for substantial changes. As I said, it's not necessary to hold the trimmer for small corrections.

[Sherlock]

Yes, I (and I believe most others here?) would say that is the correct method for substantial changes. As I said, it's not necessary to hold the trimmer for small corrections.

 

Just tried that setting- didn't work. Here's a screencap of instant action when I press "Trim reset". It starts in this position. For some reason, it thinks it's centered. Note, the joystick IS centered, something in BS is confused...

[Sherlock]

I should note that if I start cold/dark, then the Trim Reset button centers the joystick perfectly over the cross-hairs.

[Sulman]

Yes and no. ED and Kamov say you shouldn't trim this way; the actual method being set attitude (hold the control force) then dab the trim, and if you're using a mechanically sprung stick, let it go back to centre.

 

however, the technique you're using does work. Flight director switches off stability augmentation, provides cues on the HUD, and provides basic damping. It feels smoother because you're not having to override the stability - any change in attitude with stab on means you have to override the FCS authority (20%), hence it appearing harder work. Flight director will not hold an attitude for you. You can save yourself a lot of bother by making sure the aircraft is coordinated and settled before trimming, otherwise you 'trim in' crap to the FCS solution.

 

Full stab is a unique way to fly for most people, but works once you get used to it. Drove me nuts at first. Bear in mind the BS is a single-pilot ship, and all these tools come in very handy when it comes to deploying weapons and getting your synapses working outside keeping the thing in the air. I'm looking forward to the patch, I still have trouble with centreing quickly enough before BS reads the control position.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Sulman

[Huckle]

Also, a little hint for FFB joystick users- If you think about it, you can't have ANY curve in your axis.

 

This is absolutely true- I wasted a week trying to fly with a deadzone and curved axis. You MUST have linear axis. Otherwise the stick will continually jerk towards the middle everytime you release trim.

 

Someone asked about flight director- turn it on when aiming with rockets and cannon or manoeuvering hard. It makes a BIG difference.

[WynnTTr]

Just tried that setting- didn't work. Here's a screencap of instant action when I press "Trim reset". It starts in this position. For some reason, it thinks it's centered. Note, the joystick IS centered, something in BS is confused...

It's not trim reset you should be pressing. It's the trimmer itself.

 

The real world BS doesn't have a trim reset... it's an in-game thing and was only put in because of user requests. Though I don't know why...

[Sherlock]

It's not trim reset you should be pressing. It's the trimmer itself.

 

The real world BS doesn't have a trim reset... it's an in-game thing and was only put in because of user requests. Though I don't know why...

 

The problem is not the trim though. If pull the stick back to full deflection it barely crosses the neutral line.

 

BS is for some reason messing up the joystick motion range in Instant Action. I've resigned it to being a bug. I would be more than happy to work with ED if they wanted to fix it.

 

I think you need a trim reset for non-FFB sticks and rudder pedals. If you did have FFB pedals, would BS be smart enough to know that?

[Cap_Z]

The real world BS doesn't have a trim reset... it's an in-game thing and was only put in because of user requests. Though I don't know why...

I think it is because without FF the controls can out of sync and totally foobar. You can have the cyclic or rudder at full lock yet your joystick or pedals are perfectly centered. This can be very confusing for many people.