cannot reproduce FCR Not Seeing KA50s

[JimmyWA]

I've created a mission with an enemy ground convoy being followed by two KA50 IIIs. If I remove the KA50s I can easily find and take out the convoy with the FCR. It is the Falklands map with flat terrain, daylight with clear weather.

Unfortunately, no matter if I use GTM or ATM or use a wide or narrow scan, change my Apache's altitude from 50 to 400 feet, I cannot pick up the KA50s. According to the map showing the scan of the FCR the KA50s are within my scan zone.

The FCR does not pick up the KA50s at all. They get to withing gun range and shoot me down - every time. I have uploaded a track file.

Can you please advise. 

FCRDoesntPickUpChoppers.trk

[JimmyWA]

Further testing - FCR works as advertised on Caucuses and Syria map. Doesn't pick up choppers on South Atlantic and Sinai map (I haven't tested any others). Why would the map make a difference to the radar?

[Lord Vader]

Hi @JimmyWA

Maps shouldn't make a difference. Unless these maps have some bigger obstacles that could hide the helicopters, but of course I'm sure you figured that too. 

We're still analysing this item with aerial targets using GTM or RMAP. Just please bear in mind that ATM is not yet available in the DCS: AH-64D.

[JimmyWA]

It is probably not a map thing. I'm guessing I just got lucky on the Caucuses and Syria maps when the FCR picked up the KA50s. Am I flying too low and the radar is scanning below the approaching choppers? If so, why did it pick them up on the Caucuses and Syria maps in my testing?

Flying MP on Syria last night I had three separate occasions when MI-28s flew directly towards me. I just went through the replay to make sure I hadn't done anything silly, like having the FCR looking in the wrong direction. I didn't. I was hovering at around 60 to 80 feet, trees in front of me, and the MI28N visible, approaching from 12 o'clock. Only one time did the radar pick up one Mi28, showing it as at maximum range on the FCR, although I was sure it was a lot closer. It then disappeared of the FCR until I had to run away. Unlike in the video below, the enemy choppers get a lot closer - like 300 - 500 meters - before they kill me, without them appearing on the FCR.

I've tried changing the radar to narrow band and back to wide but it makes no difference.

The FCR didn't pick up a friendly Apache flying towards me on my 12 o'clock - until the Apache flew side on at a range of 3000 metres. I then had two more times when Mi28s flew directly towards me and the FCR didn't pick them up. The last time I didn't run away in time and was shot down. Each time the Mi28 was close enough to laser me, but I could not pick them up on radar. The track is too long to upload but I've created a short two minute video that shows the last encounter of what is continually happening. 

 

[tanker82]

15 hours ago, JimmyWA said:

It is probably not a map thing. I'm guessing I just got lucky on the Caucuses and Syria maps when the FCR picked up the KA50s. Am I flying too low and the radar is scanning below the approaching choppers? If so, why did it pick them up on the Caucuses and Syria maps in my testing?

Flying MP on Syria last night I had three separate occasions when MI-28s flew directly towards me. I just went through the replay to make sure I hadn't done anything silly, like having the FCR looking in the wrong direction. I didn't. I was hovering at around 60 to 80 feet, trees in front of me, and the MI28N visible, approaching from 12 o'clock. Only one time did the radar pick up one Mi28, showing it as at maximum range on the FCR, although I was sure it was a lot closer. It then disappeared of the FCR until I had to run away. Unlike in the video below, the enemy choppers get a lot closer - like 300 - 500 meters - before they kill me, without them appearing on the FCR.

I've tried changing the radar to narrow band and back to wide but it makes no difference.

The FCR didn't pick up a friendly Apache flying towards me on my 12 o'clock - until the Apache flew side on at a range of 3000 metres. I then had two more times when Mi28s flew directly towards me and the FCR didn't pick them up. The last time I didn't run away in time and was shot down. Each time the Mi28 was close enough to laser me, but I could not pick them up on radar. The track is too long to upload but I've created a short two minute video that shows the last encounter of what is continually happening. 

 

Looks like your missing your AN/APG-78 - Fire Control Radar/Radar Frequency Interferometer (FCR/RFI) POD. But whats interesting is how the FCR is working without it.

[LorenLuke]

On 10/16/2024 at 9:53 PM, JimmyWA said:

It is probably not a map thing. I'm guessing I just got lucky on the Caucuses and Syria maps when the FCR picked up the KA50s. Am I flying too low and the radar is scanning below the approaching choppers? If so, why did it pick them up on the Caucuses and Syria maps in my testing?

Flying MP on Syria last night I had three separate occasions when MI-28s flew directly towards me. I just went through the replay to make sure I hadn't done anything silly, like having the FCR looking in the wrong direction. I didn't. I was hovering at around 60 to 80 feet, trees in front of me, and the MI28N visible, approaching from 12 o'clock. Only one time did the radar pick up one Mi28, showing it as at maximum range on the FCR, although I was sure it was a lot closer. It then disappeared of the FCR until I had to run away. Unlike in the video below, the enemy choppers get a lot closer - like 300 - 500 meters - before they kill me, without them appearing on the FCR.

I've tried changing the radar to narrow band and back to wide but it makes no difference.

The FCR didn't pick up a friendly Apache flying towards me on my 12 o'clock - until the Apache flew side on at a range of 3000 metres. I then had two more times when Mi28s flew directly towards me and the FCR didn't pick them up. The last time I didn't run away in time and was shot down. Each time the Mi28 was close enough to laser me, but I could not pick them up on radar. The track is too long to upload but I've created a short two minute video that shows the last encounter of what is continually happening. 

 

Your radar was set to Auto Elevation, which tries to scam the ground in front of you as best it can based on your radar altitude. Given how low you were, and the fact that this means the radar was pointing downwards per this automatic elevation logic means that any air targets above you would have had to be very close to be picked up. And that all assumes that the trees in front of you wouldn't interfere with the radar in some way, either. 

Try again, but use the manual elevation and move the elevation indicator to about 2-3 ticks above that large line on the vertical scale (you can do this from the front seat only with the FCR as sight and using the manual track thumbstick up/down) before scanning.

 

10 hours ago, tanker82 said:

Looks like your missing your AN/APG-78 - Fire Control Radar/Radar Frequency Interferometer (FCR/RFI) POD. But whats interesting is how the FCR is working without it.

Very likely it was shot off in the barrage of cannon fire.

[JimmyWA]

I tried manual elevation very early on. It made no difference.

[JimmyWA]

After watching WAGS latest video on the soon to be released air radar, I think the problem was that the ground radar was picking up some helicopters when it probably shouldn't have been. Based on the radar beam in ground target mode the choppers probably should not be showing up at all, unless they get really close. The ATM should solve the problem/process of the ground radar not picking them up.

[Lord Vader]

Hey @JimmyWA

Both GTM and RMAP are perfectly capable of picking up aerial targets. But, of course, ATM is specifically designed for that task.