Mission 4 HAD won't lock

[Shimvolski]

I don't know if I am doing something wrong here or if there is a better approach.  I am using my ecm in mode 2, flying around 28-30 thousand feet.  I have my had set for threat 5 to match up with the chinese ships.  I can't get the had to lock on any of the red emitters.  The only time I do I am way too close and the enemy ship is firing.  I am on my 8th try and can't seem to do anything useful.  I am burning tons of fuel evading incoming missles but can't even get off any harms.  Please help.

[SorelRo]

I wonder if you have have the right codes set for the harms. If they fire at you, you should see them and lock on them. 

Do the F18s and buffs fire? In the end that's the main mission. If they get to launch and cull some of the landing ships it will help down the road. 

[PawlaczGMD]

not related to the campaign per se, but do you need to set up threat tables (I assume that's what you mean by codes here) if you have HTS equipped? Or does it "just work"?

[Shimvolski]

On the HAD, I selected the threat table 5, which contains 409-411.  I am trying to lock through the HAD screen in EOM mode.  I will try not using the HAD anymore just to pass the mission.  Will use the harm weapon screen with harm as sensor and set up the harms in RUK mode with those specific codes through the harm screen towards waypoint 3.

Edited November 3, 2024 by Shimvolski

[Shimvolski]

I feel like even though there are 4 f15's & 8 f-16's, I am the only one who will engage anything.  Everyone keeps going defensive 1/3 of the way to waypoint 3.  They go bingo fuel and just hang back by waypoint 2 and never engage.  The F-15's are useless.  Getting the harms off with just using HAS is the only way to get them to work now due to some other DCS bug.  Is there anything that can be done to script the other fighters to be useful?  Can the engagement range of the ships be tweaked so my wingman and Uzi 2 get close enough to engage?  Might help the F15's get involved as well.  I am just going to have to skip this mission after about 15 tries because even though I launch all harms, and take out 3-4 J-11s, it isn't enough to get the B52's close enough to all launch their missles.

[SorelRo]

I'll run some tests. They were not useless and they used to engage. But AI in DCS you never know what you gonna get from one update to another. 

 

I'll run some tests and if needed I'll tweak and post the updated mission. 

[Gilligan]

There is supposedly some problem that lots of players are having with the HARMS and the HTS pod/HAD mode.

I haven't experienced the problem, but lots of others have. 

I have read in the past that using the ECM pod can interfere with the HTS pod tracking and locking ground radar emitters. If I were you I would try turning it off when attempting to use the HTS Pod. Honestly, the ALQ ECM pods are mostly useless in the current state of the game for the Viper so I usually just pull them off my Jet and add extra fuel. 

 

I was able to complete this mission (albeit with heavy blue casualties) by more or less the following process:

 

I put the radar codes for the target ships (409, 410, 411) as briefed into table 3 in the HARM menu via the DED (AG MODE -> LIST -> 0(MISC) -> 0(HARM)). I don't think it matters which table you put them in, that's just where I put them.

On ingress I got an approximate location on the enemy ships using the HTS pod and then created a Mark Point with the TGP. The HTS pod got me pretty close, roughly in the center of the ship formation. I didn't really have to search much to confirm the location and create the MKPT.  

Flew to roughly within range (Had to fly moderately defensively and at an angle to the SAMs to reduce their range while I closed distance) and launched all 4 harms using POS mode, with the Markpoint I had created as their target. I sent two at the Type 52B radar, and one each at the Type 52C and Type 54A radars.

NOTE: I was not really expecting these shots to hit anything. As I read the briefing the goal was to try and deplete as many of the ships missiles as possible, and in my experience sending a full volley of harms likes that tends to draw the most repeat shots from SAMs. All 4 missiles were shot down but the ship shot about a dozen missiles at them to achieve that.

I told my flight to engage mission and rejoin before I launched my HARMS, but I honestly don't remember if they did anything. I was having an issue with them running out of fuel and ejecting near STPT 3. 

Once I sent the HARMs I went defensive and flew as low as I could before coming back nose hot to engage the J-15's, staying low. I did a popup attack against them and took out 3 or 4 in about as many passes, getting low again each time I went defensive. The F15's may have gotten a couple. The other F16's didn't do much if the were even still around at this point. The SAMs on the ships inflicted massive losses on most of the Blue Air. The Buffs were able to get their missiles out though, and maybe a half dozen got through and sunk at least one ship. 

It did take 3 tries to succeed, and this approach was refined over the prior couple attempts, however even in my first shot at it I was able to track and lock the ships radars with the HTS pod and fired all 4 harms using that process. This one feels like a suicide mission but it is doable. 

 

Details were all confirmed in TACVIEW. I'll see about attaching the tacview file after work if anyone wants to review it. 

 

 

[SorelRo]

The heavy BlueFor casualties are unavoidable at this point. It will change as you progress through the campaign. But you pointed right, the role was exactly this, to force them fire as many SAM at you as possible to give the Buffs and the Hornets a chance, and it looks like you did just that. 

[Shimvolski]

After the hotfix patch today I tried this mission again.  I saw in the bug reporting that someone said the HAD bug went away for them after the patch so I was excited to try this again.  The mission wasn't set up with JHMCS and I had been adding it through the ground crew EVERY time previously when the mission started.  I tried the mission again today but forgot to add the JHMCS and in this one case the HAD worked like normal and I was able to lock targets in the HAD.  I completed the mission as it was much easier to engage the ships and I also gave my wingmen extra fuel pods on their wings as well as 120 chaff/ 0 flares and some of them engaged the ships and one even engaged the bandits (they still went defensive way too much) but the extra fuel helped them not go bingo as fast.  I tried the mission again with adding JHMCS in the mission planner and the HAD didn't work.  I then tried adding it on the tarmac with the ground crew and again the HAD didn't work.  I also turned off the JHMCS in flight and I still could not lock targets in the HAD.  Having the JHMCS equipped might be tied to the HAD bug of targets not locking.  I reported this potential discovery on the F-16 bug forum but if anyone was adding the JHMCS, try doing it without it and maybe your HAD will work correctly like it did for me.  Also add the fuel and 120 Chaff to the wingmen as it made a difference (at least until SorelRo's updates come out in a patch).

[SorelRo]

The JHMCS was not there for a reason, you are right after deployment and the helmets didn't make it in time.

[Gilligan]

Looking at some of the bug reports in the main f16 section, if you have you WPN page pulled up on one MFD with the HAD on the other then the HAD will not lock. 

I was able to repeat this bug so I do believe that is the case. If you have any other page pulled up on the other MFD (HSD, SMS, etc) it will lock on the HAD page, fire, and track just fine. 

[pbt31]

Yes it works ! thanks @Gilligan (but all my AGM88 has been destroyed by HHQ-9  ).

I managed to finish despite my wingmen are totally useless (they are not attacking on my orders, and were bingo fuel very soon, thanks to DCS AI...).

Just the fourth one has killed one J11-A.

[SorelRo]

I swear they are guzzling fuel more with the last update. a year into developing this and testing it numerous times, I never had to do any black magic to prevent their premature bingo. Well, back to the drawing board for the previous update. 

[PawlaczGMD]

I also have issues with that mission. 

I might be doing something wrong, but the ships don't show up on my HAD at all. Yes, I switched it on. Any ideas? Do you need to enter the codes for the HAD somewhere?

Still, I was able to lock HARMs from the WPN page using the correct codes. But despite launching all 4 HARMs, ordering wingmen to engage mission, and getting some launches on myself, the mission was a fail. Most friendlies were shot down, and my HARMs were intercepted. I only managed to kill a J-11. I don't think my wingmen launched anything, they immediately went defensive and got killed for free.

Mission was not a success after returning to base. I feel like I have minimal impact as a player here, the friendly AI just isn't able to win.

Edited November 17, 2024 by PawlaczGMD

[SorelRo]

1 minute ago, PawlaczGMD said:

I also have issues with that mission. 

I might be doing something wrong, but the ships don't show up on my HAD at all. Yes, I switched it on. Any ideas? Do you need to enter the codes for the HAD somewhere?

Still, I was able to lock HARMs from the WPN page using the correct codes. But despite launching all 4 HARMs, ordering wingmen to engage mission, and getting some launches on myself, the mission was a fail. Most friendlies were shot down, and my HARMs were intercepted. I only managed to kill a J-11. Mission was not a success after returning to base. I feel like I have minimal impact as a player here, the friendly AI just isn't able to win.

The friendly AI would not have won without your support. And the mission is designed that way, You can make them deplete a lot of the SAMs and this gives the BUFF's just enough to squeeze a few missiles through. Make sure that you are presenting yourself there, that they are launching enough missiles at you, and that you send enough HARM properly locked their way. The mission is doable, it's not easy, but it is doable. 

[PawlaczGMD]

59 minutes ago, SorelRo said:

The friendly AI would not have won without your support. And the mission is designed that way, You can make them deplete a lot of the SAMs and this gives the BUFF's just enough to squeeze a few missiles through. Make sure that you are presenting yourself there, that they are launching enough missiles at you, and that you send enough HARM properly locked their way. The mission is doable, it's not easy, but it is doable. 

Thx, I will try again. Any tips on orders to issue to my flight in this one?

[SorelRo]

35 minutes ago, PawlaczGMD said:

Thx, I will try again. Any tips on orders to issue to my flight in this one?

Mission and rejoin works for your wingman.