Mr_sukebe Posted November 15, 2024 Posted November 15, 2024 FFB is now here, if in early adoption and I have to say that I'm impressed. What struck me is that I'm looking at the variety of different settings that I could play with, and in most cases, I have no idea what they "should" feel like. Sure, we're read how a helicopters collective doesn't generally self centre, but that's only one part of it. If I think of say an F18, with fly by wire, would a pilot feel through the stick: changing stick forces dependent upon speed? I'm guessing that maybe a level of feedback is built into the stick What level of self centre exists? Do you feel the undercarriage, flaps, air brakes being deployed? Does a change to the trim of the aircraft, as a result of say the flaps change the feedback responses from the stick? Are there deliberate points where the force required on the stick has a step change, e.g. at 6g, to help avoidance of ripping off stores? Does dropping a bomb produce a feel to it? And that's just for the F18. There's going to be significant variances between aircraft. Does anyone have any suitable sources that we can draw on to collate this stuff? Moza have provided a set of profiles for some aircraft, but I've no idea if they're even in the right ballpark. My assumption is yes, but maybe it's all deliberately over done. I do wonder if we should pull together a matrix with the aircraft type as a row, and the columns capturing a level of feedback from say 1-10 for each of the variables that we can think of. Thoughts? 3 7800x3d, 5080, 64GB, PCIE5 SSD - Oculus Pro - Moza (AB9), Virpil (Alpha, CM3, CM1 and CM2), WW (TOP and CP), TM (MFDs, Pendular Rudder), Tek Creations (F18 panel), Total Controls (Apache MFD), Jetseat
some1 Posted November 15, 2024 Posted November 15, 2024 2 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said: changing stick forces dependent upon speed? I'm guessing that maybe a level of feedback is built into the stick What level of self centre exists? Do you feel the undercarriage, flaps, air brakes being deployed? Does a change to the trim of the aircraft, as a result of say the flaps change the feedback responses from the stick? Are there deliberate points where the force required on the stick has a step change, e.g. at 6g, to help avoidance of ripping off stores? Does dropping a bomb produce a feel to it? no a lot. You need almost 1 kgf just for the breakout force, 6 kgf for maximum aileron deflection and 18 kgf for maximum elevator deflection. For reference, Moza at max settings is about 3 kgf. no no no no More detailed info here: https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/lm9lqk/how_stiff_is_a_joystick_of_a_real_fighter_plane/ The stick in the Hornet does not have a dynamic FFB, at least not to my knowledge. The magic happens inside the FBW computers, that translate pilot inputs to varying control surface movement depending on the situation. So the pilot can get a constant g per deflection, or constant pitch/roll rate, or whatever was programmed into the system to that phase of flight. While the stick remains a "dumb", spring loaded device, albeit with much heavier springs and dampers than our toys. Most of the effects you describe may be felt inside the cockpit, but rather as the whole airframe shaking and vibrating, not just the control column. So it would be more a task for something like Buttkicker than joystick FFB. But of course you may turn them on in FFB software for increased immersion. 2 Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil WarBRD, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro
Mr_sukebe Posted November 15, 2024 Author Posted November 15, 2024 Great feedback, thanks 1 7800x3d, 5080, 64GB, PCIE5 SSD - Oculus Pro - Moza (AB9), Virpil (Alpha, CM3, CM1 and CM2), WW (TOP and CP), TM (MFDs, Pendular Rudder), Tek Creations (F18 panel), Total Controls (Apache MFD), Jetseat
propeler Posted November 15, 2024 Posted November 15, 2024 3 hours ago, some1 said: While the stick remains a "dumb", spring loaded device, albeit with much heavier springs and dampers than our toys. Not all devices are toys. There are devices that can produce needed force on pitch
Aapje Posted November 15, 2024 Posted November 15, 2024 8 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said: What struck me is that I'm looking at the variety of different settings that I could play with, and in most cases, I have no idea what they "should" feel like. Does it matter if you are not training to actually fly one of these aircraft? I would personally suggest focusing on what feels good. If feeling the undercarriage, flaps, air brakes being deployed puts a smile on your face and makes you feel more connected to the plane, then does it matter that in a real plane it would feel a bit different? 2
Mr_sukebe Posted November 15, 2024 Author Posted November 15, 2024 19 minutes ago, Aapje said: Does it matter if you are not training to actually fly one of these aircraft? I would personally suggest focusing on what feels good. If feeling the undercarriage, flaps, air brakes being deployed puts a smile on your face and makes you feel more connected to the plane, then does it matter that in a real plane it would feel a bit different? Very relevant point, though it would be interesting to understand what reality is like, before going full on Hollywood 2 7800x3d, 5080, 64GB, PCIE5 SSD - Oculus Pro - Moza (AB9), Virpil (Alpha, CM3, CM1 and CM2), WW (TOP and CP), TM (MFDs, Pendular Rudder), Tek Creations (F18 panel), Total Controls (Apache MFD), Jetseat
propeler Posted November 16, 2024 Posted November 16, 2024 The topic was discussed there on forum several Times. It is something like 4.5lb per G linear force plus additional force when AoA Goes higher than 22 degree
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