Hunting for the stutter-free VR experience.

[Moxica]

New firmware and software today. Had a decent flight with 90 fps average. Until I got closer to the FARP, and it dropped to 29 FPS.
So I alt tabbed to find out what was going on. CPU nwas fine, but ethernet went wild.

null

[Panzerlang]

6 hours ago, ischicopter said:

Guys, your FPS are supposed to be "capped", rather synced, by your HMD. If you find yourself having to limit your FPS with 3rd party software, something is wrong with your Setup.

In a functioning Setup, limiting your frames should have no impact whatsoever. Especially limiting it beyond your headsets refresh rate, since it should already be capped by the runtime.

Just get MSI Afterburner and monitor your FPS. Does it go beyond your refresh rate? If yes you have a whole other problem

This is all very interesting. I've tried capping my FPS, both in the Pimax Play software and in the DCS settings. Both increase stutter. So, in DCS, I have the slider at max (300FPS). My monitor is at 120htz. When I run DCS in monitor mode I can barely see the most tiny evidence of micro-stutter. The FPS window shows FPS at 240-ish to 300. The frame-time graph at the bottom is almost 100% smooth (occasional tiny spikes). Message, yellow/green "CPU Bound, Rendering Thread".

Edited December 31, 2024 by Panzerlang

[lefuneste01]

17 hours ago, ischicopter said:

Guys, your FPS are supposed to be "capped", rather synced, by your HMD. If you find yourself having to limit your FPS with 3rd party software, something is wrong with your Setup.

In a functioning Setup, limiting your frames should have no impact whatsoever. Especially limiting it beyond your headsets refresh rate, since it should already be capped by the runtime.

Just get MSI Afterburner and monitor your FPS. Does it go beyond your refresh rate? If yes you have a whole other problem

You don’t get it. That’s not DCS going to to 95 Hz despite your  HMD being at 90 Hz, but having à far smoother experience  if you cap fps at 50 Hz and have reprojection  at 45 Hz, or if you limit fps at 70 because you can not reach 90.  Doing it remove stuttering for me.

[ischicopter]

1 hour ago, lefuneste01 said:

You don’t get it. That’s not DCS going to to 95 Hz despite your  HMD being at 90 Hz, but having à far smoother experience  if you cap fps at 50 Hz and have reprojection  at 45 Hz, or if you limit fps at 70 because you can not reach 90.  Doing it remove stuttering for me.

 

What you are describing is essentially forcing Reprojection ON at all times if I understood you correctly. Of course a solid 45-reprojected-to-90 will give a better experience than hovering back and forth between 45 and let´s say 80ish FPS.

I do that all the time on my Quest 3 in VD with the "SSW always ON" option. Meta has it in the Debug tool or via Hotkey CTRL+Keypad3

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, lefuneste01 said:

You don’t get it. That’s not DCS going to to 95 Hz despite your  HMD being at 90 Hz, but having à far smoother experience  if you cap fps at 50 Hz and have reprojection  at 45 Hz, or if you limit fps at 70 because you can not reach 90.  Doing it remove stuttering for me.

If the FPS is below the refresh rate you will always get stutter. I would advise not attempting 90Hz and try for 72Hz. As ischicopter says, if you use ASW it is better to control this via meta. I use OTT to set keybinds for the various ASW settings. 

 

[ischicopter]

12 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

This is all very interesting. I've tried capping my FPS, both in the Pimax Play software and in the DCS settings. Both increase stutter. So, in DCS, I have the slider at max (300FPS). My monitor is at 120htz. When I run DCS in monitor mode I can barely see the most tiny evidence of micro-stutter. The FPS window shows FPS at 240-ish to 300. The frame-time graph at the bottom is almost 100% smooth (occasional tiny spikes). Message, yellow/green "CPU Bound, Rendering Thread".

Which tells us that your PC should very much be able to handle VR. On a side note: You might want to consider enabling Vsync/Gsync for your 2D applications since drawing frames beyond your refresh rate is literally wasted energy besides warming up your room much more than needed.

Have you tried OXRTK Turbo Mode yet? 

Edited January 1 by ischicopter

[WipeUout]

19 hours ago, ischicopter said:

Just get MSI Afterburner and monitor your FPS. Does it go beyond your refresh rate? If yes you have a whole other problem

One side of the story only.  What about CPU core/thread utilization? DCS multithread uses several core but it is not the only software running, you have to look at each core utilization a see if some have high usage and this can be the cause of stutters even if overall CPU usage is well below 100%.  If DCS is asking unlimited FPS to the CPU, the CPU will crank as much as possible.  Limiting FPS in DCS will help to maintain some headroom for when you fly over cities using QVFR for example, or when you are near lots of high details units.

[Fish]

On 12/29/2024 at 4:35 PM, MarkyMarkUK said:

When I was on my PICO4 with VD DCS was great, now with Pimax Crystal Light, stutter city. The only thing that fixed it for me was setting the Quality to LOW in the Pimax Play client, now I can play DCS with all graphics maxed and with QV and DLSS on.

Exactly same here. With Pico4, 2xMSAA, 72hz, No SSW, view distance High, most places smooth as butter using steamvr. (render res 3120x3120), Now with PCL, no matter how low render resolution ( and other lower settings), I can't eliminate micro stutter. I'm now on lower render resolution now 2640x3124 with PCL than I was on Pico, and getting poorer performance. And my 2560x1440 mirror in 2d looks smooth as butter while in VR. Looks more like a Pimax issue than a DCS one to me.

13700k, 4090, 64gb DDR4 ram @ 3600

 

Edited January 1 by Fish

[Moxica]

20 hours ago, Panzerlang said:

This is all very interesting. I've tried capping my FPS, both in the Pimax Play software and in the DCS settings. Both increase stutter. So, in DCS, I have the slider at max (300FPS). My monitor is at 120htz. When I run DCS in monitor mode I can barely see the most tiny evidence of micro-stutter. The FPS window shows FPS at 240-ish to 300. The frame-time graph at the bottom is almost 100% smooth (occasional tiny spikes). Message, yellow/green "CPU Bound, Rendering Thread".

Did you get the firmware update?
Because today I had some significant progress:
Changed from 90Hz to 120Hz, and moved FPS slider to max.
Smooth gameplay with 100-120 fps on "best scenario"
Overall smooth, and the best I've had since I got the Pimax.
My former "big success" setting was updating Quadviews, and adjusting default foveated res (was150%) to 100%
Not sure if significant, but the other dayI took Mr Sukebe's tip and set Textures to medium. They still are, and I don't see much difference in image quality.

Edited January 1 by Moxica

[Panzerlang]

9 hours ago, ischicopter said:

Which tells us that your PC should very much be able to handle VR. On a side note: You might want to consider enabling Vsync/Gsync for your 2D applications since drawing frames beyond your refresh rate is literally wasted energy besides warming up your room much more than needed.

Have you tried OXRTK Turbo Mode yet? 

I have only DCS on this rig after I did the OS re-install and I'm running OpenXR and Quadviews on the Pimax native software.

I tried the DCS FPS slider on 95 and 45. 95 was no visible difference to 300 but on 45 the image (looking sideways out the cockpit at 50m altitude) was awful. Micro-stutter on steroids.

1 hour ago, Moxica said:

Did you get the firmware update?
Because today I had some significant progress:
Changed from 90Hz to 120Hz, and moved FPS slider to max.
Smooth gameplay with 100-120 fps on "best scenario"
Overall smooth, and the best I've had since I got the Pimax.
My former "big success" setting was updating Quadviews, and adjusting default foveated res (was150%) to 100%
Not sure if significant, but the other dayI took Mr Sukebe's tip and set Textures to medium. They still are, and I don't see much difference in image quality.

Firmware? No, I downloaded the latest Pimax Play but I had no idea there was a firmware update too. I'll do that now.
Um, no I won't, it says there isn't one. Lol. My current firmware is 1.3.0_au0531

Edited January 1 by Panzerlang

[Moxica]

11 minutes ago, Panzerlang said:

I have only DCS on this rig after I did the OS re-install and I'm running OpenXR and Quadviews on the Pimax native software.

I tried the DCS FPS slider on 95 and 45. 95 was no visible difference to 300 but on 45 the image (looking sideways out the cockpit at 50m altitude) was awful. Micro-stutter on steroids.

Firmware? No, I downloaded the latest Pimax Play but I had no idea there was a firmware update too. I'll do that now.
Um, no I won't, it says there isn't one. Lol. My current firmware is 1.3.0_au0531

It is not available through the app yet.
Firmware on my Crystal lights:: V1.0.14
Pimax support sent me this link:

https://pimax.com/pages/downloads-manuals
And also this one:

Hi 

Try below link.

https://dlappstore.pimax.com/release/play/PimaxPlaySetup_Release_toC_V1.36.01.01.02_202412272021.exe

 

Note:

Edited January 1 by Moxica

[Panzerlang]

27 minutes ago, Moxica said:

It is not available through the app yet.
Firmware on my Crystal lights:: V1.0.14
Pimax support sent me this link:

https://pimax.com/pages/downloads-manuals
And also this one:

Hi 

Try below link.

https://dlappstore.pimax.com/release/play/PimaxPlaySetup_Release_toC_V1.36.01.01.02_202412272021.exe

 

Note:

Ah, I think you're confusing firmware with software.

[Peedee]

14 minutes ago, Panzerlang said:

Ah, I think you're confusing firmware with software.

When you update to the new Pimax Play software then a new firmware will become available for downloading   That’s the way I understand it.
 

 

Pimax Play

I. New Features and Optimizations:
- Offline Access: PimaxPlay now supports "offline access without login." This means you can access the client and use basic VR functions even without an internet connection.

II. Bug Fixes:
1. General:
- Language Synchronization: The PimaxPlay payment window language will now automatically switch according to the client language.
- OTA Update: Fixed an issue where clicking "install" during OTA updates would not respond.
- OpenXR Rendering: Optimized some rendering issues in OpenXR.
- Optimized the local dimming algorithm and reduced the halo effect.
2. Crystal Light:
- Passthrough Image: Optimized the passthrough image quality.
- Tracking Calculation: Reduced tracking algorithm calculation time, decreasing abnormal latency.
- Improved Controller Algorithm: Reduced controller input latency.

III. Firmware Update:
1. Crystal Light Firmware 1.0.14:
- Fixed several known issues.

IV. Rollout:
- This update will be gradually rolled out to all users over the next two weeks.

Update time: Dec 29, 2025

Edited January 1 by Peedee

[Panzerlang]

I thought I'd give 72htz another try after installing the latest Pimax Play software but same old same old, it makes the stutter worse. I'm starting to agree with the notion of others, that it's the Pimax software at issue rather than DCS. How can REDUCING the headset's workload make things the opposite of betterer? Lol.

120htz, way more stutter (as to be expected).

[Moxica]

9 hours ago, Peedee said:

When you update to the new Pimax Play software then a new firmware will become available for downloading   That’s the way I understand it.
 

 

Pimax Play

I. New Features and Optimizations:
- Offline Access: PimaxPlay now supports "offline access without login." This means you can access the client and use basic VR functions even without an internet connection.

II. Bug Fixes:
1. General:
- Language Synchronization: The PimaxPlay payment window language will now automatically switch according to the client language.
- OTA Update: Fixed an issue where clicking "install" during OTA updates would not respond.
- OpenXR Rendering: Optimized some rendering issues in OpenXR.
- Optimized the local dimming algorithm and reduced the halo effect.
2. Crystal Light:
- Passthrough Image: Optimized the passthrough image quality.
- Tracking Calculation: Reduced tracking algorithm calculation time, decreasing abnormal latency.
- Improved Controller Algorithm: Reduced controller input latency.

III. Firmware Update:
1. Crystal Light Firmware 1.0.14:
- Fixed several known issues.

IV. Rollout:
- This update will be gradually rolled out to all users over the next two weeks.

Update time: Dec 29, 2025

Ye. That's how it works.

[Panzerlang]

1 hour ago, Moxica said:

Ye. That's how it works.

Ok, I guess the OG and Light have different firmwares then. Nothing for the OG currently.

[Moxica]

Crystal lights got the following:

"Tracking Calculation: Reduced tracking algorithm calculation time, decreasing abnormal latency."

Edited January 2 by Moxica

[Peedee]

6 minutes ago, Moxica said:

Pimax lights got the following:

"Tracking Calculation: Reduced tracking algorithm calculation time, decreasing abnormal latency."

Nice. The original Crystal and Crystal light uses different methods for tracking as far as I know, so I guess that is one reason there is no update for the original Crystal. I will update my Pimax play and my Crystal Light later today. I got an original Crystal too, but it’s collecting a bit of dust these days even if it has eye tracking. The light is much more comfortable and the batteries are annoying. 
 

Edit: also the lenses on my Crystal Light are noticeably better than on my eye tracking Crystal. 

Edited January 2 by Peedee

[Panzerlang]

7 minutes ago, Peedee said:

Nice. The original Crystal and Crystal light uses different methods for tracking as far as I know, so I guess that is one reason there is no update for the original Crystal. I will update my Pimax play and my Crystal Light later today. I got an original Crystal too, but it’s collecting a bit of dust these days even if it has eye tracking. The light is much more comfortable and the batteries are annoying. 
 

Edit: also the lenses on my Crystal Light are noticeably better than on my eye tracking Crystal. 

Is it not possible to swap the lenses?

[Moxica]

I had my best "Pimax" day yesterday, after update, and maxing out Hz and FPS slider: 120Hz on pimax and FPS slider to max. Textures to medium.
FPS over 100, and brilliant graphics.
I was, however conservative (aka coward) in my choice of test environment.
A-10 in barren, but target rich area in Iraq, and an F4 Quick mission.
Enjoyng while it last kinda..
Excited to test more after work today.

Edited January 2 by Moxica

[Panzerlang]

7 minutes ago, Moxica said:

I had my best "Pimax" day yesterday, after update, and maxing out Hz and FPS slider: 120Hz on pimax and FPS slider to max. Textures to medium.
FPS over 100, and brilliant graphics.
I was, however conservative (aka coward) in my choice of test environment.
A-10 in barren, but target rich area in Iraq, and an F4 Quick mission.
Enjoyng while it last kinda..
Excited to test more after work today.

Nice.

But yes, it's a crying shame that different maps have massively different performance for no apparent reason. Caucasus and Mariannas have very similar building and tree densities, but the latter is a spike & stutter fest. Like an idiot I went and bought every single map, only to find most of them are unplayable in VR. Not impressed with ED on that front, at all. Maybe they should focus on making the latest map useable before pumping out a new one.

Edited January 2 by Panzerlang

[Panzerlang]

Oh, I've completely turned off all anti aliasing without any significant visible difference to image quality but with definitely smoother frames.

[gonvise]

35 minutes ago, Panzerlang said:

...Caucasus and Mariannas have very similar building and tree densities...

Not even close, Marianas is a much more complex map than Caucasus at ground level, although visually Caucasus is the best map in terms of visual/performance ratio.

I'm following this thread with great curiosity, as I'm also a "stutter free" maniac, and the only way to get it with a Quest Pro is with ASW at 45, limiting the FPS in DCS to 50, and with a configuration that, in any case and in any map that I want to fly, achieves those 45. Without ASW, the mere fact of fluctuating between different FPS generates stutters (in my case). At 90 it's impossible for me even with a 4090, since I have super sampling x2 and I don't change that.

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, Panzerlang said:

Oh, I've completely turned off all anti aliasing without any significant visible difference to image quality but with definitely smoother frames.

I don't use any AA either. Much better performance. Even compared with DLSS. 

[Dogmanbird]

I love DLAA for it's terrific anti aliasing look, and it seems to retain very good fps, but I appreciate that it creates some ghosting/trails on some of the gfx which some folk don't like.