HAD Target Question

[bonesvf103]

I've noticed several times that when I lock a target in the HTS HAD page and fire, the missile goes stupid and flies into the ether or crashes into the ground.  I was wondering if the HTS/HAD detects a threat and it gets killed, it still remembers that threat and thus is a "ghost return."  ie, am I shooting at a target that USED to be there but is not anymore?  The only thing is I believe that the PGM level still changes as I track that return prior to locking it--if the target was destroyed it wouldn't be transmitting so why is there a PGM change?

What happens if the target radar is turned off?  Will it still show in the HAD page because it was remembered by the HTS?

 

Thanks.

v6,

boNes

[SpecterDC13]

6 hours ago, bonesvf103 said:

I've noticed several times that when I lock a target in the HTS HAD page and fire, the missile goes stupid and flies into the ether or crashes into the ground.  I was wondering if the HTS/HAD detects a threat and it gets killed, it still remembers that threat and thus is a "ghost return."  ie, am I shooting at a target that USED to be there but is not anymore?  The only thing is I believe that the PGM level still changes as I track that return prior to locking it--if the target was destroyed it wouldn't be transmitting so why is there a PGM change?

What happens if the target radar is turned off?  Will it still show in the HAD page because it was remembered by the HTS?

 

Thanks.

v6,

boNes

If the SAM turns off/gets destroyed, it will turn green on the HAD page. If the SAM is offline for a while it should remove from the HAD page over time. The AGM-88C is suppose to remember the last location and fly to it instead of just doing it's own thing. I believe a report has already been made for it. 

[Gilligan]

If a threat goes inactive or is no longer detected by the HTS sensor, after about 2 minutes the symbol in the HAD display will turn green, and then disappear after another couple of minutes.

 

If the radar emitter goes inactive and you launch on it before the symbol goes green, or if it goes inactive while the missile is in the air, it is more likely than not that the missile "goes stupid" and flies right on into the bozosphere. 

 

However, without custom scripting, SAMs typically do not behave this way in DCS, and emit until they are destroyed. That said, the emitter you were tracking/launched on could have been destroyed before your missile got there, which would have the same effect.

In my experience the HARMs in DCS do not remember the location of threats and just go ballistic once tracking is lost.

 

Sometimes they also just miss. To have the best chance of hitting your intended emitter, launch when the symbol turns red (indicating that you are being tracked by the track radar) and try to keep the radar track active as best you can.

Edited February 4 by Gilligan

[NytHawk]

12 minutes ago, Gilligan said:

In my experience the HARMs in DCS do not remember the location of threats and just go ballistic once tracking is lost.

HARMs in DCS will inertially guide once they have lost track. However this guidance is really only useful to point the HARM in the right direction to re-acquire an emitter. Inertial guidance alone obviously has insufficient accuracy to hit a target.

[void68]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Gilligan:

However, without custom scripting, SAMs typically do not behave this way in DCS, and emit until they are destroyed. That said, the emitter you were tracking/launched on could have been destroyed before your missile got there, which would have the same effect.

In my experience the HARMs in DCS do not remember the location of threats and just go ballistic once tracking is lost.

Well, I noticed SAM emitters switching on/off depending on your threat level on them, i.e. is a HARM in the air towards them. HARMs seem to remember the position once they had picked up an emitter, depending on the mode PB, EOM etc with variable ranges and arcs. I have no idea about the azimuth / elevation resolution of the HARM seeker in conjunction with its poor INS navigation but I guess the closer they are when losing emitter the smaller the hit orb.

ED can confirm or falsify my observation.

[bonesvf103]

Thanks all for the great info.

When I use the HARM with HTS, I use POS EOM and I don't fire until I am pointed right at the target (VV right on lubber line, in between loft envelope markers).  So it could be the target was destroyed before I hit it.  Also that way if the target hasn't moved and the radar turns off, it will hit close.  Still there are times when the HARM gets lost.

v6,

boNes

[Gilligan]

4 hours ago, void68 said:

Well, I noticed SAM emitters switching on/off depending on your threat level on them, i.e. is a HARM in the air towards them. HARMs seem to remember the position once they had picked up an emitter, depending on the mode PB, EOM etc with variable ranges and arcs. I have no idea about the azimuth / elevation resolution of the HARM seeker in conjunction with its poor INS navigation but I guess the closer they are when losing emitter the smaller the hit orb.

ED can confirm or falsify my observation.

Things may have changed in recent updates, but at least in the past, the SAMs were always on (unless scripted otherwise), even if your HTS pod is not getting a fix on them.

 

For example, even if you didn't have a sam emitter on the HAD display indicating the HTS pod was picking it up, you could launch in POS mode at a steerpoint co-located with the emitter, and the HARM SHOULD still track that emitter.

 

Remember that SAM's require both a search and track radar to function Optimally (though they can still function with Just a track radar to some degree), and sometimes these show up separately on the HAD (EX: Snow Drift Search Radar and SA 11 TEL Track Radar vs SA 6 Straight Flush Search/Track Radar vs SA 2 Fan Song + Separate EW Search Radar like a Spoon Rest). Track Radars are generally directional and might not be looking in your direction until you are picked up by the search radar, or may be tracking other threats, which would mean your HTS pod isn't seeing that track radar beam to display it on the HAD screen.

At least that's my understanding of it. 

Edited February 4 by Gilligan

[void68]

Yes, you are correct with your understanding. The SA-11 TR is very capable of performing SR tasks, once the Snow Drift is out, be aware of that. A "silent" TR does not mean it's silent, but can still be very active, just looking into another direction. On the other hand a noisy TR with a tracking or even missile launch warning does not necessarily mean that your aircraft is targeted, it can be as well one of your winmen in the same tracking cone.

I might be wrong, but I did notice on/off behaviour of the radars for about half a year. Might be update related or different skill settings (the latter just influence engagement range, I guess).