FC3 to FF differences

[AeriaGloria]

So. Trying to make a list of what to expect, would appreciate if anyone can come up with stuff I can’t! 
 

1. No target marker, diamond now shows radar antenna deflection on 70 by 45 degrees HUD scale 

2. Circle now shows IRST target deviation and intercept trajectory in radar mode 

3. Right HUD border and elevation/HUD carats are only on IPV/HDD 

4. No display of mode 

5. No display of PRF except commanded PRF for Lazur GCI 

6. No display of Target speed except by datalink 

7. No display of Target height except by datalink

8. Barometric altitude in 100s of meters instead of 10s 

9. Radar altimeter only in 10s of meters rather then every meter

10. Missiles will only show ready after preparation time, which will happen early if you lock before being in missile range but if you lock within missile range will take 4 seconds 

11. TDC box size will change depending on mode 

12. Range scale will change only depending on 3 the PRF settings and locked target range and cannot be changed 

13. Navigation circle shows where to point nose rather then bank 

14. Double deflection gun mode available (described in manual as targeting invisible target, activated or de activated by pressing Ku-31 slew/laser activation button)

15. No heading tape with locked target 

16. No target aspect shown with IRST lock, and limited laser range and limited opportunities for radar ranging

 

What is one advantage we will get other then getting an interception cue at the price of no target marker? IPV/HDD will show radar bar being scanned, Seeing what bar is being scanned when you get a radar contact might help tell you their elevation 

 

Likely we will get the “r” symbol which according to our delta H knob postion, It’ll have us fly under or over the target by the set altitude and then zoom to equal altitude right before missile range. Might help if you want to do low altitude approach then zoom to target 

 

Ranging to jamming targets by turning side to side with 30 degree bank as radar gimbal limit diamond slides from one wing of artificial horizon silhouette to the other 

Being able to mess with IRST gain 

Better radar dynamics, including zero closure filter, hopefully false targets, instead of needing any look up angle to get notch removed it will be 5 degree minimum. Hopefully MPRF/ZPS is more aspect agnostic compared to FC3 where it has half the range in front aspect as it does rear. 

IRST will only have 30 degrees azimuth and pitch angle, instead of 60 

Also you won’t have delta H +/-1 as many times as you want but 1/2/4/6/8/10 

 

Expect longer IRST and radar lock times, minimum 2 seconds for radar and 1.5 seconds for IRST 

Gimbal limits of radar will be +56/-38, rather then +/-60, and HUD diamond will show vertical deviation of gimbal on +/-45 degree scale rather then 60 degeee scale it is in FC3

Eventual datalink. Depending on how it’s implemented it might only show closest target or the target that will meet you first with a 4.5s update rate, and give you commands like afterburner if you’re slow, tell you how much to climb, and turn on radar when within range and automatically gate the target. You could also use IRST though you will have to manually lock the target. You won’t be able to change target. Target directions will be shown horizontally with a small circle on +/-45 degree scale using 3 different intercept trajectories at GCI choosing. As mentioned earlier only with datalink will HUD show PPS/HPRF or ZPS/MPRF, and only show target speed and altitude with datalink. Additionally radar using 6 bar rather then 4 bar scan with smaller scan zone that increases as range closes. 

Single bomb drop using training switch 

Correction for wind for rockets, guns, ams bombs. All wind/movement correction need a manual designation vs automatic in FC3 (which gives us auto wind correction for bombs atleast). You will dive on target, hold lock button, release it on target, and after 2-3 seconds when you place pipper on target the difference will be calculated and correction show. 

 

HMD in FC3 only shows search, lock by following the target, and then launch authority with the flash and outside gimbal limits with the X. 

 

It will likely ne similar graphical presentation as BS3, where it will show search as the ring, then flash for radar/IRST lock, crosshairs if Fox 2 is locked on, and flashing crosshairs for launch authority. When outside gimbal limits it will completely turn off. One interesting thing is I mentioned the cooperation switch that ties Radar and IRST together. In helmet and OPT modes it searches using both sensors at once, and first one to lock will be primary sensor. 
 

This cooperation switch might surprise users who are used to IRST/radar always picking up lost lock of other. By default the sensors won’t interact, but when moving cooperation switch forward they will. This also locks radar into MPRF/ZPS. So it cannot be used for all situations, thought MPRF should align with IRST range rather well. I have seen different info that selecting R-27R/ER might force it to use radar as primary, and verifiable info that if you have IRST lock but outside laser range, pressing lock will transition to radar. 

I’ve seen different sources saying that either it will try to laser range IRST target for 8 seconds before using radar, and other implying it will be instant until within laser range. Either way radar ranging with IRST track has special HUD symbol for range bar. 

 

Flare program allowing huge customization and 3 different modes, a default, a double mode, and a ground mode that automatically releases flares when weapons are released when in this mode. Flare usage will also automatically double above 6k meters. 

 

ARU being able to be selected to max deflection, this will bypass the 7-8 G turn restriction we have in FC3 (unless this is a bug and fixed in FM). 

 

You will be able to have your fuel range estimate change from the current FC3 “range you will have flying with the current throttle level and speed” to an “optimal” setting that tells you how high your range could be in perfect conditions, allowing you to get them as close as possible. 

You will have to deal with the 3-6.5 km range of your laser. Ground move will also thus be limited to 5 km, no more lofting bombs from 5-10 km away or dropping weapons from huge angles and altitudes above 5 km unless using the radar altitude/angle ranging backup that will be used if laser not available or burned out. 

Toss bombing (over the shoulder), if anyone is would want to do that! 

We should have much more realistic SPO-15, though unfortunately not the version that shows if x band radar is within or outside 15-20 km. We will have one less range zone, as its manual shows there is only one antenna for 50-90 degree zones, and it only determines if they are 90 degrees if there is enough overlap with the rear antenna on that side. Since the rear antenna also has less gain, this means that if implemented this way, at long range and 80-90 degree aspect it will still show “50,” then show “50/90” at closer range to say “they are 80-90 degrees from you. Along with of course the different categories, such as pulse and PD fighters split up, and no EWR/AWACs will be able to be seen on it. 

3 waypoints, 3 airfields, simplicity! 

With RSBN correction won’t need to worry about drift! 

Weapon selector only has 2 positions. More simplicity! Goodbye R-27/R-73/R-60 loadout!  

 

We’ll have a working EKRAN! Without black shark we can take part in “WATCH EKRAN” !!!

Noobs will be able to flip a switch that stops you from locking onto friendlies with radar? Less friendly fire maybe?????

Of course there will be other differences with being able to interact with nearly all the cockpit objects, but these ones I expect to surprise some people. 

 

 

[Ganl]

The locking time of helmet sights may significantly increase

[Ganl]

But what I'm looking forward to the most is the high-fidelity R-27/R73/R60

[pjbunnyru]

17 часов назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

Of course there will be other differences with being able to interact with nearly all the cockpit objects, but these ones I expect to surprise some people. 

 who willbe surprised? owners of 16/18 aliens from 00s?

Edited April 9 by pjbunnyru

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, pjbunnyru said:

 who willbe surprised? owners of 16/18 aliens from 00s?

I mean. I know I was personally very surprised when I learned that there is no symbol placed over a target (except for the gimbal indicator and placing your nose on them like a MiG-21), and no target altitude/speed shown without datalink. 
 

If datalink is truly early access, and there isn’t say, an up to date EWR on that person or you are surprised, you might have to play it safe because it’ll be harder to tell who you have locked up and their current performance. 
 

It will take some skill! 

[pjbunnyru]

17 часов назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

I mean. I know I was personally very surprised when I learned that there is no symbol placed over a target (except for the gimbal indicator and placing your nose on them like a MiG-21), and no target altitude/speed shown without datalink. 
 

If datalink is truly early access, and there isn’t say, an up to date EWR on that person or you are surprised, you might have to play it safe because it’ll be harder to tell who you have locked up and their current performance. 
 

It will take some skill! 

it will be more dificult than it is now. 
a lot will depend on setings of "voice assistant" from A-50, if ED leaves it as it is now, it will b failur. from messages "target 120 km from u at 9 oclock, cold", and on top of that, in huge list to isolate nesesary information about real threat, thats another task, but ignoring short "light" of bandit, say 20 km from you and flying at u, this is what i see very often
customisable message system is needed for such aircraft and systems: target range, threat, hot-cold,priority etc.

will ED do this? I dont know.

[Ronin_Gaijin]

On 4/8/2025 at 10:03 PM, AeriaGloria said:

So. Trying to make a list of what to expect, would appreciate if anyone can come up with stuff I can’t! 
 

 

1. No target marker, diamond now shows radar antenna deflection on 70 by 45 degrees HUD scale 

2. Circle now shows IRST target deviation and intercept trajectory in radar mode 

3. Right HUD border and elevation/HUD carats are only on IPV/HDD 

4. No display of mode 

5. No display of PRF except commanded PRF for Lazur GCI 

6. No display of Target speed except by datalink 

7. No display of Target height except by datalink

8. Barometric altitude in 100s of meters instead of 10s 

9. Radar altimeter only in 10s of meters rather then every meter

10. Missiles will only show ready after preparation time, which will happen early if you lock before being in missile range but if you lock within missile range will take 4 seconds 

11. TDC box size will change depending on mode 

12. Range scale will change only depending on 3 the PRF settings and locked target range and cannot be changed 

13. Navigation circle shows where to point nose rather then bank 

14. Double deflection gun mode available (described in manual as targeting invisible target, activated or de activated by pressing Ku-31 slew/laser activation button)

15. No heading tape with locked target 

16. No target aspect shown with IRST lock, and limited laser range and limited opportunities for radar ranging

 

What is one advantage we will get other then getting an interception cue at the price of no target marker? IPV/HDD will show radar bar being scanned, Seeing what bar is being scanned when you get a radar contact might help tell you their elevation 

 

Likely we will get the “r” symbol which according to our delta H knob postion, It’ll have us fly under or over the target by the set altitude and then zoom to equal altitude right before missile range. Might help if you want to do low altitude approach then zoom to target 

 

Ranging to jamming targets by turning side to side with 30 degree bank as radar gimbal limit diamond slides from one wing of artificial horizon silhouette to the other 

Being able to mess with IRST gain 

Better radar dynamics, including zero closure filter, hopefully false targets, instead of needing any look up angle to get notch removed it will be 5 degree minimum. Hopefully MPRF/ZPS is more aspect agnostic compared to FC3 where it has half the range in front aspect as it does rear. 

IRST will only have 30 degrees azimuth and pitch angle, instead of 60 

Also you won’t have delta H +/-1 as many times as you want but 1/2/4/6/8/10 

 

Expect longer IRST and radar lock times, minimum 2 seconds for radar and 1.5 seconds for IRST 

Gimbal limits of radar will be +56/-38, rather then +/-60, and HUD diamond will show vertical deviation of gimbal on +/-45 degree scale rather then 60 degeee scale it is in FC3

Eventual datalink. Depending on how it’s implemented it might only show closest target or the target that will meet you first with a 4.5s update rate, and give you commands like afterburner if you’re slow, tell you how much to climb, and turn on radar when within range and automatically gate the target. You could also use IRST though you will have to manually lock the target. You won’t be able to change target. Target directions will be shown horizontally with a small circle on +/-45 degree scale using 3 different intercept trajectories at GCI choosing. As mentioned earlier only with datalink will HUD show PPS/HPRF or ZPS/MPRF, and only show target speed and altitude with datalink. Additionally radar using 6 bar rather then 4 bar scan with smaller scan zone that increases as range closes. 

Single bomb drop using training switch 

Correction for wind for rockets, guns, ams bombs. All wind/movement correction need a manual designation vs automatic in FC3 (which gives us auto wind correction for bombs atleast). You will dive on target, hold lock button, release it on target, and after 2-3 seconds when you place pipper on target the difference will be calculated and correction show. 

 

HMD in FC3 only shows search, lock by following the target, and then launch authority with the flash and outside gimbal limits with the X. 

 

It will likely ne similar graphical presentation as BS3, where it will show search as the ring, then flash for radar/IRST lock, crosshairs if Fox 2 is locked on, and flashing crosshairs for launch authority. When outside gimbal limits it will completely turn off. One interesting thing is I mentioned the cooperation switch that ties Radar and IRST together. In helmet and OPT modes it searches using both sensors at once, and first one to lock will be primary sensor. 
 

This cooperation switch might surprise users who are used to IRST/radar always picking up lost lock of other. By default the sensors won’t interact, but when moving cooperation switch forward they will. This also locks radar into MPRF/ZPS. So it cannot be used for all situations, thought MPRF should align with IRST range rather well. I have seen different info that selecting R-27R/ER might force it to use radar as primary, and verifiable info that if you have IRST lock but outside laser range, pressing lock will transition to radar. 

I’ve seen different sources saying that either it will try to laser range IRST target for 8 seconds before using radar, and other implying it will be instant until within laser range. Either way radar ranging with IRST track has special HUD symbol for range bar. 

 

Flare program allowing huge customization and 3 different modes, a default, a double mode, and a ground mode that automatically releases flares when weapons are released when in this mode. Flare usage will also automatically double above 6k meters. 

 

ARU being able to be selected to max deflection, this will bypass the 7-8 G turn restriction we have in FC3 (unless this is a bug and fixed in FM). 

 

You will be able to have your fuel range estimate change from the current FC3 “range you will have flying with the current throttle level and speed” to an “optimal” setting that tells you how high your range could be in perfect conditions, allowing you to get them as close as possible. 

You will have to deal with the 3-6.5 km range of your laser. Ground move will also thus be limited to 5 km, no more lofting bombs from 5-10 km away or dropping weapons from huge angles and altitudes above 5 km unless using the radar altitude/angle ranging backup that will be used if laser not available or burned out. 

Toss bombing (over the shoulder), if anyone is would want to do that! 

We should have much more realistic SPO-15, though unfortunately not the version that shows if x band radar is within or outside 15-20 km. We will have one less range zone, as its manual shows there is only one antenna for 50-90 degree zones, and it only determines if they are 90 degrees if there is enough overlap with the rear antenna on that side. Since the rear antenna also has less gain, this means that if implemented this way, at long range and 80-90 degree aspect it will still show “50,” then show “50/90” at closer range to say “they are 80-90 degrees from you. Along with of course the different categories, such as pulse and PD fighters split up, and no EWR/AWACs will be able to be seen on it. 

3 waypoints, 3 airfields, simplicity! 

With RSBN correction won’t need to worry about drift! 

Weapon selector only has 2 positions. More simplicity! Goodbye R-27/R-73/R-60 loadout!  

 

We’ll have a working EKRAN! Without black shark we can take part in “WATCH EKRAN” !!!

Noobs will be able to flip a switch that stops you from locking onto friendlies with radar? Less friendly fire maybe?????

Of course there will be other differences with being able to interact with nearly all the cockpit objects, but these ones I expect to surprise some people. 

 

 

Biggest one that we are missing is missile tone.
This will need to be implemented as well.
Also Lazur-M has 4.5 seconds while Biryuza has 5 sec.

Edited April 10 by Ronin_Gaijin

[Ronin_Gaijin]

48 minutes ago, pjbunnyru said:

it will be more dificult than it is now. 
a lot will depend on setings of "voice assistant" from A-50, if ED leaves it as it is now, it will b failur. from messages "target 120 km from u at 9 oclock, cold", and on top of that, in huge list to isolate nesesary information about real threat, thats another task, but ignoring short "light" of bandit, say 20 km from you and flying at u, this is what i see very often
customisable message system is needed for such aircraft and systems: target range, threat, hot-cold,priority etc.

will ED do this? I dont know.

This customisable EWR system already exists and it is called EWR script.
ED if they wanted, they could implement it into DCS code in 30 seconds.

[AeriaGloria]

7 hours ago, Ronin_Gaijin said:

Biggest one that we are missing is missile tone.
This will need to be implemented as well.
Also Lazur-M has 4.5 seconds while Biryuza has 5 sec.

I wouldn’t say biggest, but it’s definitely a big impact on “feel!” 
 

They are lucky they are choosing something with only Lazur-M, Su-27 has Lazur-M, Beryuza, Raduga, 2 SPK protocols lol. 

[Ronin_Gaijin]

17 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

I wouldn’t say biggest, but it’s definitely a big impact on “feel!” 
 

They are lucky they are choosing something with only Lazur-M, Su-27 has Lazur-M, Beryuza, Raduga, 2 SPK protocols lol. 

9.12 had the Biryuza.
 

 

Edited April 11 by Ronin_Gaijin
null

[AeriaGloria]

7 hours ago, Ronin_Gaijin said:

9.12 had the Biryuza.
 

 

Yes it did. But not 9.12A. I know we both wish it was a domestic model

Anyways That is what Cipher #4-15 is for (Beryuza). 1-3 is for Lazur-M. These pictures are for 9.12A and 9.13 but should also apply to 9.12 and 9.12A 

The Cipher number correlates to number of groups/fighters that can be sent at once to one target, so 3x per target is Lazur limit and Beryuza 12. One graph here shows 13 for Cipher of Lazur-M, but I think it’s mistranslation of 1-3. 

Im sure this is why if you look at pictures of domestic 9.12/9.13, they often have their cipher knob at 4, becuase they using the more advanced Beryuza system. 

For some reason they must not have wanted to export Beryuza, or knew that customers wouldn’t have the required ground stations. A lot of 9.12 I’ve seen seem to have the Cipher knob at 4 so that they are in “Beryuza” mode. 

Edited April 11 by AeriaGloria

[Harlikwin]

I mostly hope that IRST doesn't see thru clouds... We got Fog impacting IR stuff recently so I'm hopeful actual clouds blocking IR comes before or with the release of the 29.

Also KOLS was mostly to be used for weapon systems Cueing, the IRST "functionality" was pretty terrible according to pilots with major clutter problems, which makes sense given that it doesn't really have much in the way of clutter processing per the TM.

Edited April 23 by Harlikwin
added stuff