AAR not getting the tanks full

[Monkman911]

Finally completed my first full AAR! Problem is my fuel gauge only indicated a little over 8,000 lbs. I had no external tanks on the airplane. Is there a switch I missed to transfer fuel to the wings?

Thank you in advance for any assistance!

[Zabuzard]

Finally completed my first full AAR! Problem is my fuel gauge only indicated a little over 8,000 lbs. I had no external tanks on the airplane. Is there a switch I missed to transfer fuel to the wings?
Thank you in advance for any assistance!

I suspect you did not actually finish the refueling but misinterpreted the events.

There is a DCS "bug" with the tanker where when you disconnect due to maneuvering and then dont cycle the door quick enough while the tanker connects again, he will incorrectly state "refueling complete" instead of waiting for the door to be cycled first.

When that happens you have to reengage the dialog with the tanker and continue with the refueling (ofc after cycling the door).

[Monkman911]

Hmmm, I don't think I ever lost contact but if it was for a millisecond that would explain it. I will try it again and if I'm not at 12,000 lbs I'll recycle the door and plug again.

Thank you Zabuzard!

 

[Monkman911]

Problem fixed! You were correct. Wow, what a sense of accomplishment 

[Arecibo]

14 hours ago, Monkman911 said:

Finally completed my first full AAR!

Congratulations! Any more tips for us mere mortals? I’ve managed to get connected for about five seconds after spending half an hour trying to get lined up. Even the tiniest throttle movements seem to be too much! I’ve taken to splitting the throttles, but still over/under shooting annoyingly. Maybe just more practice…

[Pantera93]

1 hour ago, Arecibo said:

Congratulations! Any more tips for us mere mortals? I’ve managed to get connected for about five seconds after spending half an hour trying to get lined up. Even the tiniest throttle movements seem to be too much! I’ve taken to splitting the throttles, but still over/under shooting annoyingly. Maybe just more practice…

I'm joining you on the throttles problem.

Seems to me that matching the tanker speed is one of a kind experience and, above all, the engine reaction time to my inputs is in terms of 3-4 seconds. Is this "real"? Is there a specific tanker speed that mitigates this effect? Should I set some specific throttle curves in controls (using Warthog Thrustmaster)?

Maybe is just muscular memory...

[Zabuzard]

3 hours ago, Pantera93 said:

Is this "real"?

Yes. This aspect in particular has been carefully fine-tuned to match all available (very detailed) technical data and our SMEs all confirm that it felt exactly like that.

[Ziggy123]

9 hours ago, Arecibo said:

Congratulations! Any more tips for us mere mortals? I’ve managed to get connected for about five seconds after spending half an hour trying to get lined up. Even the tiniest throttle movements seem to be too much! I’ve taken to splitting the throttles, but still over/under shooting annoyingly. Maybe just more practice…

In my experience there is no one correct throttle setting, you are forever moving them up then back hopefully with ever decreasing movements until you match the speed, then you micro manage the throttles to keep station. Hope this helps.

[Monkman911]

Having now tanked all of the airframes in DCS that can be tanked, I'll share some observations on my part. I am by no means an expert doing this and still struggle on some of the airframes (F-14, F1EE). The concept of AAR is is the same no matter which airframe you are flying but there are quirks for each one. Things that have helped me push through on the F-4 are:

1. Seat position. Bind the raise/lower seat if you can on your HOTAS. You will need this for AAR (lower) to see the PDL's and for landing (raise) to see over the nose

2. Throttles. Split throttles is the key for multiengine airframes. This allows finer adjustments when you are moving into position and makes holding position much easier. For the F-4 I use both to get into pre-contact position and then only 1 to move into contact position. If you are not constantly moving the throttle you will struggle with this. The movement measured at the top of the throttle handle is probably 1/2 of an inch plus or minus

3. Jester. Pay attention to Jester's callouts, he will give you direction before the PDL's move

4. Trim. Make sure when you are in precontact that you have the F-4 trimmed as close to neutral as you can get it. As you take on fuel the CG will slowly move rearward meaning you will have to trim nose down to compensate 

5. Practice. This is an obvious one but it still very important. I find if I don't regularly practice AAR and go back to it I'm rusty. The very small stick and throttle movements required for AAR are quite different than normal flying

6. AAR mission. I have SP missions set up for the KC-135 and KC-135 MPRS that allow me to cover all of the airframes. To get used to MP servers I find that placing the tanker at 24,000 feet and 500 knots translates to most MP servers

7. First timers. If you have never tried AAR I strongly recommend that you practice formation flying first. Set up the tanker as stated above and just fly formation off the wingtip. As your skills develop, you can get closer and closer to the wingtip until you can hold position within 5 feet of the wingtip. At this point you can transition to the boom. 

I found this video years ago and was a game changer for me when I decided that I was going to try AAR

I hope this helps!

Edited April 17 by Monkman911

[Dragon1-1]

First of all, ignore the PDLs. Seriously, people get hung up on them way too much. Don't mess with your seat, either, it's a waste of time. Line up your canopy bow with the point on the tanker's fuselage where the wings start and hold it there. Pay attention to Jester once you're on the boom. Splitting throttles can be useful but is far from necessary. Trim, trim, trim until you only need to nudge the stick to get relative movement. Get in formation, then slowly get on the boom. Oh, and don't use a joystick with any kind of deadzone, it'll kill your sensitivity where you need it most. A decent throttle will help, too.

[Monkman911]

Based on your response I am led to believe you have been doing this for awhile. My post was mainly for beginners as an entry point to AAR. I still stand by the PDL's. If the F-4 is the only airframe you plan to tank, then lining up the canopy bow and relying on Jester to talk you in will work, however with the F-15 and F-16 IMHO you should get used to using the PDL's.

Cheers!

[Arecibo]

14 hours ago, Dragon1-1 said:

Oh, and don't use a joystick with any kind of deadzone, it'll kill your sensitivity where you need it most

Damn, I've just found @Monkman911's thread on the Winwing Orion 2 default deadzone being massive. I thought the default was zero. Thanks @Dragon1-1 and @Monkman911. Hopefully this helps thread the needle!

[Dragon1-1]

21 hours ago, Monkman911 said:

however with the F-15 and F-16 IMHO you should get used to using the PDL's.

No, you should find a similar reference and fly it. Easy in the F-15 (just watch a YouTube video and see where the canopy bow is), in the F-16, you have to use the overall sight picture, because it has no canopy bow to reference. In each case, forget the PDL, it'll spare you a lot of frustration, and also spare you from complaining on the forum that they are, realistically, rather hard to see. Jester makes it easier because he warns you when you're approaching the limits, but in the end, it's all about finding your reference and not deviating from it too much. All Jester does is tell you whether you lined up at the edge of the envelope and are going to fall off the moment you slide aft a little, which makes the Phantom particularly good for learning the skill.

Yes, I've been doing it for a while. A lot of that is simply muscle memory (being able to fly the jet precisely in first place), however, using the right visual reference helps a lot. PDL are friggin' useless, and fighter pilots IRL generally don't reference them. They've been originally designed for refueling B-52s, and it shows.

9 hours ago, Arecibo said:

I thought the default was zero. 

Yeah, fixing that is a key part of configuring the stick. I don't know why they made it that way, it's been so since the Orion 1, but it's completely unnecessary. Both Orions are great hardware, but Winwing's software is meh at best.

[Kalasnkova74]

On 4/17/2025 at 3:54 AM, Pantera93 said:

I'm joining you on the throttles problem.

Seems to me that matching the tanker speed is one of a kind experience and, above all, the engine reaction time to my inputs is in terms of 3-4 seconds. Is this "real"? Is there a specific tanker speed that mitigates this effect? Should I set some specific throttle curves in controls (using Warthog Thrustmaster)?

Maybe is just muscular memory...

Also worth noting here, the F-4s angular engine placement means power changes also change nose angle. This was of course an intentional design decision going back to its naval roots. 

No big deal (at least to me) in casual flight, but it’s perceptible in formation and AAR.