SPO15 feedback

[Dejan]

2 hours ago, MA_VMF said:

Временное РТЭ самолета 9-12 1982г

• Временное РТЭ использовалось в течение короткого периода, а затем заменялось на окончательную версию.
• Информация о временных документах может быть менее доступной.
• I am interested in what is written in the final version, not the trial version.

[AeriaGloria]

If it is a preliminary 1982 manual that is the one with the phrase 

“

	When the radar is switched on for emission, it is not possible to use the
	information from the SPO-15LM indicator due to its erroneous
	nature and, in some cases, chaos/При включении РЛПК на излучение использовать информацию с индикатора СПО-15ЛМ не представляется возможным ввиду ее ошибочности, а в ряде случаев и хаотичности.“ That is incredibly interesting piece of information……..

Edited Thursday at 09:30 AM by AeriaGloria

[Кош]

22 минуты назад, AeriaGloria сказал:

If it is a preliminary 1982 manual that is the one with the phrase 

“

	When the radar is switched on for emission, it is not possible to use the
	information from the SPO-15LM indicator due to its erroneous
	nature and, in some cases, chaos/При включении РЛПК на излучение использовать информацию с индикатора СПО-15ЛМ не представляется возможным ввиду ее ошибочности, а в ряде случаев и хаотичности.“ That is incredibly interesting piece of information……..

This is from an airforce manual for pilots. It contradicts developer-made manuals and airforces of different states manuals for technicians. We are in the stage of conversation of physically how and why to which these statements don't say anything. Only real answer to how blanking works or doesn't work is a combined graph of signals. To my interpretation of technical manual blanking should cover PRF at least in established modes. Unless not only RWR but many other thing would not have worked.

Edited Thursday at 09:55 AM by Кош

[AeriaGloria]

2 minutes ago, Кош said:

This is from an airforce manual for pilots. It contradicts developer-made manuals and airforces of different states manuals for technicians. 

Ah thank you 

[Кош]

14 часов назад, Dejan сказал:

Look, I can send you the entire pilot's manual "L-18 aircraft handling" Yugoslav markings for the MiG29. In the entire manual for pilots, the only place where it is mentioned that Beryoza should be turned off, and the pilot should do it manually, is when the command to turn on the radar does not pass during guidance from the ground.
I hope you agree with me that the manual for an airplane contains all the possible instructions for using that airplane and all the restrictions.
I see that you mention Kosovo, better said the War with Yugoslavia because of Kosovo, there are testimonies of pilots who flew MiG29 in those days and who clearly mention that during the radar search they received a signal that they were locked by enemy planes. Pilot Abdul Emeti gives a statement that at the moment when he had a lock on enemy aircraft, he received a signal that the enemy had locked on him and he started an evasive maneuver.

I assume you know that Yugoslavian MiG 29s were hardly maintained in the period from 1991-1999 due to sanctions, so it cannot be said that the SPO on them was improved.
And yes, I would like to see your sources where it is written that during the use of the Mig29 radar, the SPO 15 device does not work in the front observation hemisphere.
And one more thing, after the last patch, when the enemy plane locks the Mig 29 in STT mode, any light stops shining on the SPO.

 

KRU na MiG (1).docx 470.37 \u043a\u0411 · 8 загрузок

I think you are a bit wrong. It has two separate statements. First - if radar doesn't turn on automatically from GCI electronic command, turn it on manually. Second - a reminder to turn off display of long range search radars on RWR when you turn on your radar(but not turn your RWR off totally). There is no explanation or elaboration. Looks like there are bleed-ins from own radar into long range search radar bins.

[MA_VMF]

3 часа назад, Dejan сказал:

• Временное РТЭ использовалось в течение короткого периода, а затем заменялось на окончательную версию.
• Информация о временных документах может быть менее доступной.
• I am interested in what is written in the final version, not the trial version.

Там есть внесение изменений.И оно все равно временное

[Dejan]

10 hours ago, Кош said:

I think you are a bit wrong. It has two separate statements. First - if radar doesn't turn on automatically from GCI electronic command, turn it on manually. Second - a reminder to turn off display of long range search radars on RWR when you turn on your radar(but not turn your RWR off totally). There is no explanation or elaboration. Looks like there are bleed-ins from own radar into long range search radar bins.

You are right, I made a mistake, the SPO is not turned off, but switched from observation mode to capture mode.
In the handbook it is written that Berjoza is an integral part of the navigation system from the ground, so I think that the information - signals are received through that system.

⦁  "  Ugrađena je KRU „Birjuza“ (E502-20) kao deo BReO, namenjena upravo za rad sa NASU/GCI." and translate to eng "⦁ KRU "Birjuza" (E502-20) was installed as part of BReO, intended for work with NASU/GCI."

The point of my writing here is that I believe that for some reason ED modeled the Mig29 that had just come off the strip in the first series. I am quite sure based on the logic and instructions for the Yugoslav Migs that are from the first series and were purchased in 1987 that this problem was quickly solved. 
So, we could get one red plane in DCS that is functional. If you research on the internet, even with AI the only source that mentions the problem with the SPO15LM is ED, and there are tons of technical and aviation manuals on the internet for the Mig29 in many languages.

I have been in this simulation since the beginning of 2007, believe me that after Mig 21 I am overjoyed that we finally have Mig29. I'm aware that it's still an unfinished plane, but it's done very well. Congratulations to ED for a job well done, it's a real pleasure to fly this aircraft. I hope that ED will make an official skin for the Yugoslav Mig29 and the Serbian one that is still flying today.

[AeriaGloria]

We also must not confuse the Beryuza datalink with the Beryoza (Birch) SPO as well. 
 

What we need is more MiG-29 pilots to definitively describe their experience using the SPO with the radar. If one does not make a difference for ED, perhaps we need multiple. 

Edited Thursday at 08:54 PM by AeriaGloria

[okopanja]

17 minutes ago, Dejan said:

⦁  "  Ugrađena je KRU „Birjuza“ (E502-20) kao deo BReO, namenjena upravo za rad sa NASU/GCI." and translate to eng "⦁ KRU "Birjuza" (E502-20) was installed as part of BReO, intended for work with NASU/GCI."

  

Naša 29-ka je trebalo da dobije zamenu modema sa drugačijom kripto-zaštitom, koji bi omogućio integraciju sa AS-84 komandno informacionim sistemom. Ova integracija je urađena za Mig-21, prvo sredinom 70-ih za AS-74 sistem, pa potom AS-84 sredinom 80-ih. Projekat zbog raspada zemlje nikada nije završen tako da smo rat dočekali sa klasičnim navodjenjem + sovjetskim DL-om, koji je mogao sa opšti samo sa sovjetskim radarima. U tom smo koristili miks sovjetskih, britanskih (Marconi S600 serija) i amerčkih radara (AN/TPS-63 i AN/TPS-70). Prvo veče je uništena Lena kod Pančeva koja je imala dodatnu opremu za DL. 

Velika ironija je bila da su 21-ke mogle da primaju navođenje od AS-84, pri čemu je ispravnost flote koja je bila značajno veća prevazilazila moderniju eksadrilu 29-ki. Prema nekim podacimu su veći deo 1998. godine samo 2-3 aviona bila u stanju da lete. Ostatak flote je do Marta 1999, nekako nakrpljen da leti. Ako ništa drugo sada znamo kako je bilo pilotima (da budem iskren bilo im je gore).

Slazem se konstatacijom da je ove sisteme (SPO i DL) lako pomesati. 

Uzgred nadam se da letiš SARH na Contention-u.  

 

[Dejan]

15 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

We also must not confuse the Beryuza datalink with the Beryoza (Birch) SPO as well. 
 

What we need is more MiG-29 pilots to definitively describe their experience using the SPO with the radar. If one does not make a difference for ED, perhaps we need multiple. 

I can try to get in touch with a couple of Serbian pilots who flew in 1999 in the war with NATO.

4 minutes ago, okopanja said:

  

Naša 29-ka je trebalo da dobije zamenu modema sa drugačijom kripto-zaštitom, koji bi omogućio integraciju sa AS-84 komandno informacionim sistemom. Ova integracija je urađena za Mig-21, prvo sredinom 70-ih za AS-74 sistem, pa potom AS-84 sredinom 80-ih. Projekat zbog raspada zemlje nikada nije završen tako da smo rat dočekali sa klasičnim navodjenjem + sovjetskim DL-om, koji je mogao sa opšti samo sa sovjetskim radarima. U tom smo koristili miks sovjetskih, britanskih (Marconi S600 serija) i amerčkih radara (AN/TPS-63 i AN/TPS-70). Prvo veče je uništena Lena kod Pančeva koja je imala dodatnu opremu za DL. 

Velika ironija je bila da su 21-ke mogle da primaju navođenje od AS-84, pri čemu je ispravnost flote koja je bila značajno veća prevazilazila moderniju eksadrilu 29-ki. Prema nekim podacimu su veći deo 1998. godine samo 2-3 aviona bila u stanju da lete. Ostatak flote je do Marta 1999, nekako nakrpljen da leti. Ako ništa drugo sada znamo kako je bilo pilotima (da budem iskren bilo im je gore).

Slazem se konstatacijom da je ove sisteme (SPO i DL) lako pomesati. 

Uzgred nadam se da letiš SARH na Contention-u.  

 

Letim brate, ali mi treba par, tesko je sam protiv mrskog neprijatelja

Moj nick je =4c=Kljun, mozes doci na nas discord. Koji je tvoj nick?

[Кош]

SPO-15 definetely does not receive threats via datalink. But GCI command center has functionality(basically operator assigns that contact has a radar scan volume attached) to calculate threat zones from enemy fighters and then used to build flanking and pincering maneuver trajectories to be sent to fighters in the air. Also just voice like "054 enemy is looking at you, egress course 210".

Edited 21 hours ago by Кош