COOP partially implemented

[CrazyGman]

17 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

In such a case you can enable IRST search mode. Put your nose on the target. And the target dot will be right in the middle. 
 

Often you can put the TDC in the middle, hold the lock button. And just put your nose on target to get lock since your TDC in IRST search covers 4x6 degrees 

Then you can get radar ranging up to atleast 35 km 

Yes and using this mode with Coop you can have the radar lock on outside 10km, and employ radar guided missiles, by pressing the lockon button a second time.

[Dr_Pavelheer]

@CrazyGman Thank you, TIL.

Worth noting is that you have to be in radar DUMMY mode, otherwise I couldn't get it to work

[AeriaGloria]

There are other options for the above scenario. You could lock this far away but visible target with helmet and change mode to IRST search for radar ranging, or do the same with OPT or IRST vertical scan. OPT is most precise 

[CrazyGman]

8 hours ago, Dr_Pavelheer said:

@CrazyGman Thank you, TIL.

Worth noting is that you have to be in radar DUMMY mode, otherwise I couldn't get it to work

Correct...at this point we've mentioned in this topic that you need to have the radar in dummy mode to work in tandem with the IRST so much I didn't feel the need to mention it again. But for clarity yes

[AeriaGloria]

On 10/17/2025 at 11:45 AM, CrazyGman said:

On your table for ISRT CC you have if stated that if outside laser range STT lock immediately no matter if inside or outside laser range.

However currently in game with radar in  dummy and coop enabled The radar only locks on to the IRST track and allows you to guide radar missiles when inside 10km. Outside 10km the radar doesn't lock, no diamond or radar ranging appears and R27R will not be primed to fire.

 

Same for if locking with helm/optical. You will lock with IRST, but radar in coop.amd dummy will not lock on untill inside 10km.

Currently with IRST search If you lock on with IRST at any range with radar in dummy and coop enabled and you press lockon again the radar will lock on regardless of range. 

So your table implies that using IRST CC or opt/helm, The radar will lock on regardless of range.

I've tested it a bunch. In both IRST CX and Helm modes radar locks on to the irst track and preps R-27 ranging/vector at 10km (also doesn't need lockon to be pushed in this instance, will just happen automatically.)

I assumed this was normal because when using IRST CC or helm/opt that the radar even in dummy goes into what is similar to it's vertical CC mode which is limited to 10km range.

Okay updating table since we’re talking about DUMMY. To compare notes, for your testing, when the radar entered STT only within 10 km for IR vertical scan/OPT/Helm, did you do this with a second press of the lock button after acquisition Like in IRST search, or did this happen at 10 km without pressing lock a second time? 
 

Been away from my computer for a bit and have a lot of testing to do. But it would be interesting if it was like “Radar enters STT either once laser returns range or when pressing lock a second time within 10 km.” 

Edited Monday at 02:33 AM by AeriaGloria

[CrazyGman]

7 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

Okay updating table since we’re talking about DUMMY. To compare notes, for your testing, when the radar entered STT only within 10 km for IR vertical scan/OPT/Helm, did you do this with a second press of the lock button after acquisition Like in IRST search, or did this happen at 10 km without pressing lock a second time? 
 

Been away from my computer for a bit and have a lot of testing to do. But it would be interesting if it was like “Radar enters STT either once laser returns range or when pressing lock a second time within 10 km.” 

Just tested again to make sure and there are some changes. For all examples below radar is in dummy mode and coop on:

Using IRST search. Once lock is made at any range and you press the lockon button a second time the radar will lock on target, and radar missiles will be primed to fire.

Using IRST close combat vertical. Once irst lock is achieved, the additional radar lock will only happen if your inside 10km and you press or are currently holding the lockon button a second time....or it will happen automatically without pressing the lockon button if inside laser range finding range (6km ish). As soon as radar lock is achieved R-27R's are primed to fire

Using helm or opt mode. Once IRST lock is achieved, radar will automatically lock on when inside 10km from target, and the R-27Rs will be primed to fire.

Edited Monday at 10:17 AM by CrazyGman

[AeriaGloria]

7 hours ago, CrazyGman said:

Just tested again to make sure and there are some changes. For all examples below radar is in dummy mode and coop on:

Using IRST search. Once lock is made at any range and you press the lockon button a second time the radar will lock on target, and radar missiles will be primed to fire.

Using IRST close combat vertical. Once irst lock is achieved, the additional radar lock will only happen if your inside 10km and you press or are currently holding the lockon button....or it will happen automatically without pressing the lockon button if inside laser range finding range (6km ish). As soon as radar lock is achieved R-27R's are primed to fire

Using helm or opt mode. Once IRST lock is achieved, radar will automatically lock on when inside 10km from target, and the R-27Rs will be primed to fire.

Thank you that’s very helpful

My testing confirms. However, I am struggling to find places where TP is leading, loses lock, and radar picks it up. Within laser range or after pressing lock, it shows radar leading (yet I have seen IRST leading with radar STT diamond). Yet I swear I have seen it before! Perhaps when I had coop on but radar still in ILLUM in IRST lock. Just more testing needed to narrow it down now that the rest is taken care of. 
 

I realize with radar ranging this shouldn’t happen, but only STT. 
 

One thing your results inspired me to look at. In vertical scan beyond laser range in coop, the radar was in ranging mode just not showing range. Then when laser or lock button pressed of course STT as you found out. 
 

When locking Helm/OPT above 10 km, radar was constantly on as if trying to regain lock, and thus we get to how it knows when to suddenly capture at 10 km. This seems to jive with statements that in helm/opt coop both sensors attempt to lock until they do. Yet descriptions of IRST vertical scan are much more vague.  

Edited Monday at 11:30 AM by AeriaGloria

[AeriaGloria]

Alright, either COOP is fully implemented, or one step away from it

Helmet is now a beast. Since radar has such higher gimbal limits then IRST, you can get sensor lock up to the full off boresight range of R-73 and R-27. And then once you get that sensor lock your radar will maintain with the +/-70 degree gimbal and -45/+60 degree gimbal. Your IRST is flared or out of limits radar picks it up perfectly. They fall into +/-50 kmh gap of radar then IRST picks it up perfectly. Very nice. 
 

To clarify for those that use it: 

To fire Fox 1, Radar must be primary sensor. I.e, it must be the sensor displayed on the HUD (RL/RA). If Fox 1 is already in the air and HUD changes to IRST primary sensor (TP/IR on HUD), Fox 1 will guide fine. 
 

IRST can pick up radar lock easily whenever coop is on, but for Radar to pick up lost IRST lock requires 

A. In Radar mode and IRST has already previously picked up lost radar lock. In such a case if IRST loses lock Radar can regain it or Radar will naturally become primary sensor as soon as it can regain full lock again (such as when enemy exits notch). 
 

B. For IRST modes, Radar cannot pick up lost IRST lock if Radar is only ranging or attempting to range. You must see Radar diamond (STT) while IRST is primary sensor (TP/IR on HUD) for it to pick up lost IRST lock. Each mode is a little different:

-In IRST search, it will use Radar to range until laser can pick up the target within 6.5 km at which point Radar goes STT. So until that laser ranges and Radar goes STT a lost IRST lock will not be picked up by radar. However you can prevent this by pressing lock a second time at any range to force Radar to become primary sensor and STT, also allowing you to fire fox 1. 
 

-In IRST vertical scan, it has similar logic except that Radar cannot find target until within 10 km, and will not show range during radar ranging. So requires laser to range or lock button pressed 2nd time for Radar to fully support IRST. 
 

-In IRST OPT/Helm, like vertical scan outside 10 km the radar cannot help you. But once inside 10 km it will go STT for full support. 
 

AFAIK, the only way to positively IFF is still to use radar mode for lock first, then in COOP move knob to IRST mode when you believe IRST to be in range to lock. Only then can you change radar power from Illum to dummy for coop to properly work in IRST modes after IFFing the same target. 
 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:33 AM by AeriaGloria

[CrazyGman]

11 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

Alright, either COOP is fully implemented, or one step away from it

Helmet is now a beast. Since radar has such higher gimbal limits then IRST, you can get sensor lock up to the full off boresight range of R-73 and R-27. And then once you get that sensor lock your radar will maintain with the +/-70 degree gimbal and -45/+60 degree gimbal. Your IRST is flared or out of limits radar picks it up perfectly. They fall into +/-50 kmh gap of radar then IRST picks it up perfectly. Very nice. 
 

To clarify for those that use it: 

To fire Fox 1, Radar must be primary sensor. I.e, it must be the sensor displayed on the HUD (RL/RA). If Fox 1 is already in the air and HUD changes to IRST primary sensor (TP/IR on HUD), Fox 1 will guide fine. 
 

IRST can pick up radar lock easily whenever coop is on, but for Radar to pick up lost IRST lock requires 

A. In Radar mode and IRST has already previously picked up lost radar lock. In such a case if IRST loses lock Radar can regain it or Radar will naturally become primary sensor as soon as it can regain full lock again (such as when enemy exits notch). 
 

B. For IRST modes, Radar cannot pick up lost IRST lock if Radar is only ranging or attempting to range. You must see Radar diamond (STT) while IRST is primary sensor (TP/IR on HUD) for it to pick up lost IRST lock. Each mode is a little different:

-In IRST search, it will use Radar to range until laser can pick up the target within 6.5 km at which point Radar goes STT. So until that laser ranges and Radar goes STT a lost IRST lock will not be picked up by radar. However you can prevent this by pressing lock a second time at any range to force Radar to become primary sensor and STT, also allowing you to fire fox 1. 
 

-In IRST vertical scan, it has similar logic except that Radar cannot find target until within 10 km, and will not show range during radar ranging. So requires laser to range or lock button pressed 2nd time for Radar to fully support IRST. 
 

-In IRST OPT/Helm, like vertical scan outside 10 km the radar cannot help you. But once inside 10 km it will go STT for full support. 
 

AFAIK, the only way to positively IFF is still to use radar mode for lock first, then in COOP move knob to IRST mode when you believe IRST to be in range to lock. Only then can you change radar power from Illum to dummy for coop to properly work in IRST modes after IFFing the same target. 
 

 

Ok this makes sense why the hud would sometimes switch to IRST lock, and I would not see the diamond, but the radar missiles were still primed to fire, and would still track as well.

Helmet mode as you mentioned is vastly more useful now when in coop with radar 

I've also noticed now much more jamming interference when playing online since the update. What is the procedure for locking a jamming target? I assume you still just press the lockon button, and if they are close enough the radar will burn through and lock on?

Edited 23 hours ago by CrazyGman

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, CrazyGman said:

Ok this makes sense why the hud would sometimes switch to IRST lock, and I would not see the diamond, but the radar missiles were still primed to fire, and would still track as well.

Helmet mode as you mentioned is vastly more useful now when in coop with radar 

I've also noticed now much more jamming interference when playing online since the update. What is the procedure for locking a jamming target? I assume you still just press the lockon button, and if they are close enough the radar will burn through and lock on?

Move AP/AJ switch up. Makes a huge difference, many manuals suggest to just always fly with this switch up

[CrazyGman]

8 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

Move AP/AJ switch up. Makes a huge difference, many manuals suggest to just always fly with this switch up

Usually I do, but not always. Might have been one of these times. What does the down position do? When I have it on in search no target will show up. But after locking the target, and i flip it in the down position things seem normal.

Granted I'm doing the search at long range. I think in the down position it forces anti-jamming constantly, with the result of reduced range, which is why I'm not seeing contacts in search mode.

Edited 20 hours ago by CrazyGman

[AeriaGloria]

Just now, CrazyGman said:

Usually I do, but not always. Might have been one of these times. What does the down position do? When I have it on in search no target will show up. But after locking the target, and i flip it in the down position things seem normal.

Almost every manual says the bottom position shouldn’t be used or has no function. German manual describes it identical to top position yet “narrows the jamming strip.” 

[CrazyGman]

5 minutes ago, AeriaGloria said:

Almost every manual says the bottom position shouldn’t be used or has no function. German manual describes it identical to top position yet “narrows the jamming strip.” 

Yeah I was testing it to see if helped when jousting ACE AI and maintaining lock when they then notch at high Alt and dumped an absolute absured constant trail of chaff. Regardless if the aircraft has chaff launchers attach or chaff loaded.

[AeriaGloria]

15 minutes ago, CrazyGman said:

Yeah I was testing it to see if helped when jousting ACE AI and maintaining lock when they then notch at high Alt and dumped an absolute absured constant trail of chaff. Regardless if the aircraft has chaff launchers attach or chaff loaded.

I still have yet to test if being 5 degrees below enemy turns off notch filter yet
 

Being in COOP 5 degrees low where radar doesn’t have notch or same speed filter, IRST good view, basically no hope for them to lose lock

 the only weakness for COOP i can really see is if they notch radar and flare the IRST at the same time. But obviously keeping that on the down low

[tete4Ywis]

16 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

To fire Fox 1, Radar must be primary sensor.

Is there something to press to do that ?

When i lock with the helmet with COOP on, the primary sensors stays the IR regardless of what it do (press lock again, select the fox 1, radar on DUMMY/ILLUM, radar mode, etc.)

 

Edit: nevermind, it automatically does it when all the conditions are met

Edited 18 hours ago by tete4Ywis

[CrazyGman]

2 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

still have yet to test if being 5 degrees below enemy turns off notch filter yet

This is something that I have had trouble testing, because as mentioned before when fighting AI even if I remove the chaff and flair pods on say the F-4 the AI magically can still use chaff and flairs, and on high difficulty where they will actually notch they use A LOT of counter measures (more then they in fact could carry if I hadn't removed the countermeasures) this makes it difficult for me to check because I can't tell if I'm just being notched, or if the massive chaff cloud is interfering with radar. The times that I have maintained radar lock when underneath them when they did notch  it does seem that was one of the rare times when the AI didn't drop chaff but I'm not sure. While locked on I've been switching from HPRF to MPRF depending on the target aspect and speed and it does seem to make a difference, but I don't really have anything definitive yet

I feel like I need to get an actual person to do the testing to better control variables that you can't do as well when facing just the AI in mission editor.

Edited 17 hours ago by CrazyGman

[AeriaGloria]

2 hours ago, CrazyGman said:

This is something that I have had trouble testing, because as mentioned before when fighting AI even if I remove the chaff and flair pods on say the F-4 the AI magically can still use chaff and flairs, and on high difficulty where they will actually notch they use A LOT of counter measures (more then they in fact could carry if I hadn't removed the countermeasures) this makes it difficult for me to check because I can't tell if I'm just being notched, or if the massive chaff cloud is interfering with radar. The times that I have maintained radar lock when underneath them when they did notch  it does seem that was one of the rare times when the AI didn't drop chaff but I'm not sure. While locked on I've been switching from HPRF to MPRF depending on the target aspect and speed and it does seem to make a difference, but I don't really have anything definitive yet

I feel like I need to get an actual person to do the testing to better control variables that you can't do as well when facing just the AI in mission editor.

Here’s how I plan to test. Set at civil plane in a slow orbit or turn to 90 degrees. Set to no reaction to threat. Should allow me to figure out if it’s modeled yet. 

 

3 hours ago, tete4Ywis said:

Is there something to press to do that ?

When i lock with the helmet with COOP on, the primary sensors stays the IR regardless of what it do (press lock again, select the fox 1, radar on DUMMY/ILLUM, radar mode, etc.)

 

Edit: nevermind, it automatically does it when all the conditions are met

Yeah, basically the rules are, it will default to the mode you use as primary sensor (whatever what is shown on HUD) atleast at first.

If it loses lock and secondary sensor picks it up then the previously secondary sensor is now primary. If the original primary sensor can re establish lock it will become primary again. 
 

Only real exceptions are 

Laser range, when it can range laser often radar will become primary as it is now longer needed for ranging pulses and goes STT. 
 

Or OPT/Helm, where the first sensor to lock becomes primary. You can see this now where if you lock within 30 degrees of nose often IRST locks first, and radar if beyond that limit.
If you say locked IRST first, you will often see it transfer to radar primary beyond the 30 degree limit of IRST, but when the target goes back within the 30 degree gimbal limit of IRST the IRST becomes primary sensor again. 
 

 

[AeriaGloria]

11 hours ago, CrazyGman said:

Usually I do, but not always. Might have been one of these times. What does the down position do? When I have it on in search no target will show up. But after locking the target, and i flip it in the down position things seem normal.

Granted I'm doing the search at long range. I think in the down position it forces anti-jamming constantly, with the result of reduced range, which is why I'm not seeing contacts in search mode.

As far as I’ve figured out it seems basically 

In middle position, it will hide jamming lines but show “AP” to signal it sees jamming. Move it to either position down or up and you can finally see and lock jamming, though i found it hard to lock without using TWF/TWS which manuals suggest anyways. Both positions down and up seem same to me, and once locked the switch position doesn’t seem to matter.

Any mode but head on seems useless for locking a jammer 

in order to use KMOD, you must already be banked 30-60 degrees. 

Edited 8 hours ago by AeriaGloria

[CrazyGman]

On 10/22/2025 at 8:06 PM, AeriaGloria said:

Alright, either COOP is fully implemented, or one step away from it

Helmet is now a beast. Since radar has such higher gimbal limits then IRST, you can get sensor lock up to the full off boresight range of R-73 and R-27. And then once you get that sensor lock your radar will maintain with the +/-70 degree gimbal and -45/+60 degree gimbal. Your IRST is flared or out of limits radar picks it up perfectly. They fall into +/-50 kmh gap of radar then IRST picks it up perfectly. Very nice. 
 

To clarify for those that use it: 

To fire Fox 1, Radar must be primary sensor. I.e, it must be the sensor displayed on the HUD (RL/RA). If Fox 1 is already in the air and HUD changes to IRST primary sensor (TP/IR on HUD), Fox 1 will guide fine. 
 

IRST can pick up radar lock easily whenever coop is on, but for Radar to pick up lost IRST lock requires 

A. In Radar mode and IRST has already previously picked up lost radar lock. In such a case if IRST loses lock Radar can regain it or Radar will naturally become primary sensor as soon as it can regain full lock again (such as when enemy exits notch). 
 

B. For IRST modes, Radar cannot pick up lost IRST lock if Radar is only ranging or attempting to range. You must see Radar diamond (STT) while IRST is primary sensor (TP/IR on HUD) for it to pick up lost IRST lock. Each mode is a little different:

-In IRST search, it will use Radar to range until laser can pick up the target within 6.5 km at which point Radar goes STT. So until that laser ranges and Radar goes STT a lost IRST lock will not be picked up by radar. However you can prevent this by pressing lock a second time at any range to force Radar to become primary sensor and STT, also allowing you to fire fox 1. 
 

-In IRST vertical scan, it has similar logic except that Radar cannot find target until within 10 km, and will not show range during radar ranging. So requires laser to range or lock button pressed 2nd time for Radar to fully support IRST. 
 

-In IRST OPT/Helm, like vertical scan outside 10 km the radar cannot help you. But once inside 10 km it will go STT for full support. 
 

AFAIK, the only way to positively IFF is still to use radar mode for lock first, then in COOP move knob to IRST mode when you believe IRST to be in range to lock. Only then can you change radar power from Illum to dummy for coop to properly work in IRST modes after IFFing the same target. 
 

 

So something useful.....if you lock in IRST opt/helm or IRST close combat....and your outside of 10 km, and you want to lock with the radar....you can then switch to irst search, the IRST lock will maintain through the switch, and then you can use the IRST search mode to and press lockon again to  lock a target with radar guided missiles outside 10km.

[AeriaGloria]

6 hours ago, CrazyGman said:

So something useful.....if you lock in IRST opt/helm or IRST close combat....and your outside of 10 km, and you want to lock with the radar....you can then switch to irst search, the IRST lock will maintain through the switch, and then you can use the IRST search mode to and press lockon again to  lock a target with radar guided missiles outside 10km.

It also works to move mode knob from radar to IRST, just not vice versa. I sometimes do it between IRST modes to see if i can reset from leading radar mode to leading IRST mode. 

Edit: on jamming subject. After much research and talk, APK is supposed to reduce range. Idk if implemented in DCS, but it’d only use is for angle jamming which is not present in DCS. Compensation switch is similar story, can be used with AP switch and is automatically activated by APK, but should have no function in DCS. So right now I believe, either keep AP switch off then move to AP when you see AP on HUD, or keep in AP (as document confirms that HUD shows no jamming targets when AP is in OFF/middle but only AP symbol). Comp and APK have no practical DCS use. 

Edited 1 hour ago by AeriaGloria