correct as-is 2025 F-16 Roadmap on TGP/ATP

[SubZ3r0]

There has been a lot of discussion around the current state of the targeting pods available to the F-16. I was wondering if ED has some plans on the roadmap for adjusting the ATP to have a further zoom than the legacy TGP, or have it be able to properly focus using the focus option?

One thing with the Legacy TGP is that it zooms 5x further than the sniper pod currently (4x zoom) and it has a significantly better clarity overall. This isn't the case in any IRL scenario, the Sniper is supposed to be leaps and bounds better than the litening TGP right? but most people are finding the long warmup time and lack of clarity/zoom of the ATP to be less desirable than just swapping back to the Litening and staying with that. 

I understand that the ATP warmup time is said to be realistic, which is fine, but dropping to a solid 5 minutes would make the game much better. I mean we don't make everything "realistic" in DCS right? for example the HARM/MAV..etc.. batteries just run forever rather than having the limited runtime they would have IRL. It would be a solid QOL update to drop the warmup time to something less than 10 minutes for the many that don't typically do hot starts. 

It would be great to use the ATP in a non-TV-XR/WHOT-N/W-XR mode to see any clear picture. Especially in the integrated IR mode. I added an image of the integrated mode. From what I understand this was supposed to be IR+TV? like, you can see through clouds possibly? (someone keep me honest here), but this appears to simply be WHOT in TV mode and its extremely blurry at 8.7nm and clouds still very much block visibility. The focus mode can be set to blurry, or more blurry, but at any different distance it really doesn't do much?

Not complaining, just trying to see if I am just crazy for thinking the ATP should have much better optical resolution than the Litening pod. 

[rob10]

1 hour ago, SubZ3r0 said:

Not complaining, just trying to see if I am just crazy for thinking the ATP should have much better optical resolution than the Litening pod. 

What you're missing in part is that the Litening in DCS was (and is) WAAAYYYYY overpowered to what it should be.  So it's not really an ATP problem, it's a Litening problem.

[Spartan111sqn]

6 hours ago, rob10 said:

What you're missing in part is that the Litening in DCS was (and is) WAAAYYYYY overpowered to what it should be.  So it's not really an ATP problem, it's a Litening problem.

I agree

 

7 hours ago, SubZ3r0 said:

I understand that the ATP warmup time is said to be realistic, which is fine, but dropping to a solid 5 minutes would make the game much better. I mean we don't make everything "realistic" in DCS right? for example the HARM/MAV..etc.. batteries just run forever rather than having the limited runtime they would have IRL. It would be a solid QOL update to drop the warmup time to something less than 10 minutes for the many that don't typically do hot starts. 

I also agree that it should be neccesary a limited power on for both weapons, it is a cheat that they can last forever, not appropriate for simulator.

[RogueSpecterGaming]

18 hours ago, SubZ3r0 said:

There has been a lot of discussion around the current state of the targeting pods available to the F-16. I was wondering if ED has some plans on the roadmap for adjusting the ATP to have a further zoom than the legacy TGP, or have it be able to properly focus using the focus option?

One thing with the Legacy TGP is that it zooms 5x further than the sniper pod currently (4x zoom) and it has a significantly better clarity overall. This isn't the case in any IRL scenario, the Sniper is supposed to be leaps and bounds better than the litening TGP right? but most people are finding the long warmup time and lack of clarity/zoom of the ATP to be less desirable than just swapping back to the Litening and staying with that. 

I understand that the ATP warmup time is said to be realistic, which is fine, but dropping to a solid 5 minutes would make the game much better. I mean we don't make everything "realistic" in DCS right? for example the HARM/MAV..etc.. batteries just run forever rather than having the limited runtime they would have IRL. It would be a solid QOL update to drop the warmup time to something less than 10 minutes for the many that don't typically do hot starts. 

It would be great to use the ATP in a non-TV-XR/WHOT-N/W-XR mode to see any clear picture. Especially in the integrated IR mode. I added an image of the integrated mode. From what I understand this was supposed to be IR+TV? like, you can see through clouds possibly? (someone keep me honest here), but this appears to simply be WHOT in TV mode and its extremely blurry at 8.7nm and clouds still very much block visibility. The focus mode can be set to blurry, or more blurry, but at any different distance it really doesn't do much?

Not complaining, just trying to see if I am just crazy for thinking the ATP should have much better optical resolution than the Litening pod. 

Make sure you go into the CNTL page via OSB 5, then press FLIR CAL at OSB 9. You will/should notice a better clarity with the FLIR image. You need to do this periodically during flight. The calibration takes 30 seconds. I usually do it before takeoff, and prior to entering the AO. Also helps to adjust the image using BRT and CON rockers on the MFD. Another thing I do is, I use the MGC vs the AGC. I get a cleaner looking image. 

 

This is a topic that has been beaten to death in other forums. Simple answer is, the Litening will eventually be leaving the F16, most likely when the LANTIRN comes to it. The LANTIRN will have a worse image than the ATP, so be ready for that if you decide to use it. 

 

The Litening in DCS is also overperforming and causing a false reality of how good the ATP "should" look. When in reality the ATP has digital zoom modelled and imo looks pretty close to real life (some minor tweaking needed but pretty close). That is why XR mode helps a lot. It is not a magic piece of equipment. You have to tweak the image to get the desired clarity. 

 

As far as the warmup time for it, I hope it doesn't change. Because in the future we should see what is called "Scramble mode" where you can have the BIT run in the background while you are using it essentially. Allows the pilot to turn it on and quickly get in the air without having to wait for it. This is usually done in real-world combat situations where a full BIT was previously done, whereas any other time (which is pretty much just training sorties) they sit there for the full 12 minutes until it is done. 

As far as "IR+TV" to see through clouds, I think you misunderstand what TV mode does. In TV mode you have the ability to do a PIP (picture-in-picture, which TV can be disabled in the CNTL page). Probably best to read the manual a bit to better understand it (page 385-395). So in your screenshot, yes you are in TV but it is using FLIR as that is the primary sensor and if you were to press the EXP FOV on the SSC or OSB 3 you will then go into TV PIP which will provide a better magnified image especially at 4x zoom. 

 

As far as battery life on the munitions, that is something that is definitely modelled. You probably just never shot one of those munitions far enough to notice it. AIM-120s, AIM-9s, AIM-7s, and every AA missile has battery life that is very noticeable when the missiles miss and are at high altitude. Some munitions have batteries that last 90 seconds up to several minutes depending on the munition. But you can expect the battery to last for as long as it needs to to make a high Pk hit. Again, unless you are actively trying to shoot out of the range of the munition (which like the F16 AGM65s you cant fire until within range unless you are using AREA mode with the H/K variants) you aren't going to see the munition lose power.