HOJ broken again in V1.1

[D-Scythe]

The nav profile of missiles in HOJ still is not working - I suspect because of the pure pursuit profile. It has not hit a single thing (me vs. MiG-31, me with ECM), and shows no sign of ever hitting. Even head on...see screen below.

 

 

The R-33E missed by at least two F-15C lengths - over 120 ft. In a 1 vs 1 against Foxhounds, I'm invincible to radar missiles, provided a keep my ECM on.

 

Seems to affect SARH missiles the most so far. I'll test active radar and SAMs tomorrow.

[crazyleggs]

IRL HOJ shots have really low PK against smart jammers employed by fighter self protection jammers. HOJ shots have higher PK against straight barrage noise jammers usually found in SOJ platforms.

 

Not sure if this feature is implemented in 1.1 but if it is kudos to ED!

[195th_Moses]

And its a Crappy R-33 that should have no chance at all to hit anything but a slow Moving Large target like a bomber. Try something like a R-77 see if you have same results.

[D-Scythe]

What's so crappy about the R-33E? Can you build a better missile?

[GGTharos]

Yes, you can. The Phoenix will outdo it kinematically from what I've heard. Essentially it's a big bullet meant to strike down thigns like B-52's and B-1B's. Not very effective against most fighters ... there are other missiles for those.

 

The R-37 is possibly better equipped to cope. Anyway, I don't really like that missile's behaviour too much either - I'd prefer if vector drift was increased instead of taking a pure pursuit course on target.

[BIOLOG]

R-33 basic is pretty much bomber's nightmare... R-33E is improved, but still is evaded quite easily by Fighters. R-37 (R-33EM IMHO), i much better missile and will cause even F-15 a hard time... Phoenix owns R-33, is about the same as R-33E, but with slighhtly better range, and R-33EM is a step ahead of Phoenix. I think this is about right, unless I messed um my designations, or my brain came lose (which is quite possible at this hour of the night, after couple of hours of Kinetic Theory...)

[GGTharos]

Sounds about right ...

 

Though the latest version of the 54C was fairly frightening according to a few things I heard ... then again, I've heard bad things about it, too.

[D-Scythe]

Umm, what are you guys talking about? In U.S. Navy service, the performance of the AIM-54C has been less than stellar, to say the least. In 4+ launches, it has not hit a single target. Maybe its track record with the IRIAF is better, maybe not, but the fact still stands.

 

In any case, you guys are dodging the point. Right now, I can fly straight and level, subsonic, and simply turn on my ECM and I suddenly become immune to MiG-31s. I mean, I'm basically acting like a B-52, sans the huge RCS (which doesn't matter, because my ECM is turned on anyway) and I think a missile like the R-33 would at least pass within prox. det distance when I am NOT moving, and going no faster than 0.6-0.8 Mach.

 

That's just absurd.

[coldcrew]

maybe the ECM on the F-15 is that good? It's not important anyways. If you really want a kill establish a lock and don't rely on HOJ

[nunsuch]

The R-33 should be scary just because of speed, I think the F-14 missed with AIM-54 perhaps because the aircraft they were shooting at decided there were F-14's out there and got out of the way they almost certainly killed VVS and Iraqi Mig-23's in the Iran Iraq war. In Lock On 1.02 I made a scenario where four undefended and loaded B-1B's tried to fly through four Mig-31's only R-40's and cannons did any damage. Better yet a Mig-25 will take out a Mig-31 every time?! My point is the problem isn't necesarily the HOJ feature but the Mig-31/R-33 which has never been givin the attention I felt it deserved(at least now the R-33 has a model and texture).

[D-Scythe]

Hmm, did some more experimenting. There are a few things I noticed in SP. I'm going to do this as *objectively* as humanly possible. Slider set at 100%.

 

SARH missiles tend to follow a pure pursuit intercept profile until the range closes (perhaps when the launching fighter reaches burn-through?), in which it then switches back to proportional navigation. It sorta explains the R-33 behaviour, as burn-through probably has not yet been reached by the MiG-31 that launched the missile.

 

Active radar missiles tend to follow pure pursuit up until it reaches within 4 nm or so of its target. Then, it automatically reverts to proportional navigation to complete the intercept. As for the R-77 vs. AIM-120 debate, the R-77's motor burns for 0.5-1.5 seconds longer than the AIM-120's, but from what I observed, the AIM-120 seems to have less drag. In the end, it balances out, although at lower altitudes, at ranges 6nm and beyond, where the denser air heavily punishes the R-77 especially, the AIM-120 gains a very slight advantage.

 

As for complaints that the "AIM-120 got nerfed," I can tell you that they are wrong. However, I don't think that the answer "Well, chaff has been improved," is right either. It is still extremely hard to beat missiles with chaff alone - rather, I think that ECM has been made stronger, especially when combined with chaff. I ran a few tests, me in an F-15/MIG-29S vs. one Su-27/MiG-29S with R-77s and R-27ERs, about 10 nm apart. My observations were that while I had an extremely difficult time avoiding incoming radar missiles with chaff alone, the task became a cakewalk after I turned on my ECM. Without ECM, it would take me 30 chaffs, plus manouvering. With ECM, often times, 2-3 cartridges would be enough to trash an incoming...without manouvering at all.

 

In all likelihood, it was probably just that particular scenario, although I don't think we can avoid the inescapable conclusion that ECM makes radar missiles of ALL types stupid, requiring much less decoys than usual. In any case, this is merely what I have observed, and may be different for other people.

 

I can say, though, that when setting an jamming MiC-29S at excellent skill, hitting it with an AIM-120 becomes a real b*tch ;)