I'm new, where do I start :)

[EtherealN]

I am not talking about reset to center. I am talking about the FFB-less trimmer implementation. To compare, this is how the FFB (and real-life) trim and the FFB-less implementation in DCS:BS works:

 

Real life and FFB:

1 - Press Trim and hold

2 - Perform maneuver and find a stable new desired attitude

3 - Release Trim

4 - Stick and pedals now physically stay in these positions

 

Another method would be to skip step 1 and have step 3 be "tap trim" rather than "release". Gives largely the same result except you then have not released the centering springs (physical devices in the real thing) prior to your input, which causes you to "fight" it when performing your maneuver.

 

DCS:BS FFB-less implementation:

1 - Press and hold trim

2 - Perform maneuver and find a stable new desired attitude

3 - Release Trim

4 - Simulator ignores stick and pedal input until you have centered them, and counts the position trimmed for as being at the physical center

 

In this case, let's say you release trim at +5 degrees rudder pedal deflection and your cyclic at -10 degrees on the X axis and +5 degrees on the Y axis. With FFB, and in the real thing, the pedals and cyclic will physically stay at those deflections. With the FFB-less implementation present in DCS:BS it would instead start to regard a physical cyclic position of 0/0 as -10/+5.

 

Trim Reset is unrelated - it is a shortcut to reset the trim so that physical 0/0 now equals simulator 0/0.

 

The thing is with tactile feedback. FFB in DCS:BS doesn't offer "feedback", at least not in the meaning that I ascribe to the term. "Feedback" would be things like shaking when the chopper is shaking or, in IL, while my 20mm cannon are rocking the aircraft, or in Condor* when the aircraft is buffeted by differential lift at the edge of the thermal. I suspect the disconnect is purely one of semantics though, but I want to underscore that you have the same functionality without FFB as you do with FFB - you just have to handle your stick differently.

 

Also note that as far as I know there are no FFB pedals out there on the consumer market - not even the G940 set has them, if memory serves. This poses a problem for FFB operation, since trim affects pedals as well.

 

If you want to see what can be done without FFB, check out the Frazer demo flight from digitalcombatsimulator.com, in the download section. That's flown without FFB, with an X52 HOTAS, if I remember Frazer's kit correctly.

 

*Note: since I don't use FFB normally, even though my stick is FFB, I haven't actually checked if Condor supports it. Just included as an example. I "skip" FFB due to my pedal set being non-FFB.

Edited February 26, 2010 by EtherealN

[ZQuickSilverZ]

Oh I know alot of pilots don't have FFB, some don't even like it. I will also admit I have not flown without FFB so I don't know how trim works without it. I depend on FFB to enter hover. FFB is a tool that I find to be very useful. If you don't see how it can assist in hover I just don't know what to say to you. Im sure all of us in here have different techniques in flight. To me, I can't see how people don't always over correct not having any resistance. I think that the reason we are not on the same page is because we obviously have very different flying styles. I am about 90 percent sure If I tried to fly without FFB my coptor would look like a bull at a rodeo, bucking all over the place and out of control. Obviously thats not an issue for some. I know you have a FFB stick but do you use FFB when you fly? I agree that pedals don't have FFB but if you hit ctrl enter you get a display that helps you center them.

[EtherealN]

To me, I can't see how people don't always over correct not having any resistance.

 

Same way I don't overcorrect while flying in real life. Real life aircraft are usually balanced such in control (unless we're talking a WW2 B17 or an aircraft that has suffered substantial damage or is presently "enjoying" substantial G-forces) that no large amount of force is necessary to move the controls. My typical contact with the stick, in real life, is a thumb and my index finger, unless I anticipate the need for using the PTT at which point I'll need to have my thumb free. So to avoid overcorrection I just don't apply all that much force. ;)

 

It's all about technique. And you should have heard my basic instructor cuss me out in the beginning due to my firm-grip habits from my Amiga and PC simulation years... That is the one big issue with twist-sticks: they give you bad habits that you have to unlearn when you enter flight school. :P

 

The FFB in DCS:BS, and trim in the real life helicopter, is not about combating overcorrection. You combat that through training. It's about allowing you to release the stick completely so you can work your cockpit instruments. ;)

 

EDIT:

We are, however, digressing from the subject of helping our new community member select his hardware. If you have more questions on this matter, feel free to PM me or start a new thread. :)

Edited February 26, 2010 by EtherealN

[ZQuickSilverZ]

Fair enouph EtherealN, your right we are getting off topic. Schkorpio did you look into those voice command programs?

[schkorpio]

Fair enouph EtherealN, your right we are getting off topic. Schkorpio did you look into those voice command programs?

I've found a few - there seems to be one built into Win 7, but not sure how good that is, I also have tried one called, Dragon Naturally speaking, but I think it needs a fair bit of training to get it used to a persons voice.

 

 

What kind of commands would be good for the voice?

[walker450]

Wingman/Flight Commands for a start. :)

 

I will be trying this out in the next few days for sure!

 

Here is a thread on it: Voice Activated Commands: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=49421

[ZQuickSilverZ]

Schkorpio I am familiar with Dragon Naturally Speaking. I even bought it once. Your right it requires training and from my experience is kind of haphazard. Also Dragon is not made for gaming, it's a you speak it types program. There is nothing in the version I used that would make it an appropriate program for voice commands in games (or simulators), only general PC funtions (or common office software). Dragon is also very expensive. The cheapest thier site sales it for is $99 all the way to $299 . Maybee the software has changed since I used it 5 years ago. I suggest Say2Play. Its only 20 dollars, it's easy to use, and it works great. It even comes with a free trial. To me its a no brainer to pick software made especially for games, thats a minimum of 79 dollars cheaper, in my opinion works much better, and can be tried for free.

[schkorpio]

well the problem is that some decisions might seem good at the time, but once you get into it you might not enjoy it.

 

but yeah, no matter what you do, if you stick at it until you are good at it, then its a good thing :)

 

(except for rubber band balls in the office)