sa11 question

[baksie]

What is the best way (weapons and approach) if several SA11's are the target in an open field?

 

Baksie

[EtherealN]

A B61. Just drop it from up high and run away really fast. :D

 

More seriously, which aircraft are you flying?

[SFJackBauer]

Leaving tactical nukes and intercontinental ballistic missiles aside, the best weapon would be anti-radiation missiles. In-game the only flyable aircraft that is capable of carrying them is the Su-25T, with the Kh-25MPU and Kh-58U missiles. The latter is more powerful and faster, and has longer range, more appropriate for harder-to-kill SAMs like SA-15 (Tor), SA-10/20 (S-300), Patriot. For SA-11s the lighter, yet capable Kh-25MPU can do its job.

 

Also in a SA-11 battery every launcher vehicle has its own tracking radar, different from older SAMs systems like the SA-2 which had only one tracking radar for the entire battery. So you will find you need either to dodge all their missiles until they run out of ammo, or fire several anti-radiation missiles at them, one for every launcher.

 

If you do not have anti-radiation missiles at your disposal, then my advice is... do not mess with them :)

 

More information:

 

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-9K37-Buk.html

Edited April 27, 2010 by SFJackBauer

[EtherealN]

A minor addendum on T-Frog SEAD tactics as I usually employ them: remember that altitude gives you more range (although it also gives more range to the hostile battery). I've killed TOPs and BUKs with the 25MPU through releasing from ~8km ASL. A trick I've used as well in those cases is to get in for the 25MPU shot even though I carry the 58, then wait until the SAM station engages me at which point I start releasing 25's followed by the 58's, then I turn and run as fast as I can (diving to denser air to retard the missile(s) tracking me).

 

Why? Well, if they launch at me, they'll have less launches before having to reload with which to defeat my missiles - and if they do have missiles on hand to try take out my missiles they'll likely work on the 25MPU's before they "notice" the higher-energy 58's. (It's a shame that the AI can't shut the radar off, such as an RL SAM station might do to defeat incoming ARM's, or play sidelobe pingpong to confuse it.)

 

Drawback here is that I'll be carrying a full load of 6 missiles, making the aircraft a flying brick, and I need to get up high. This requires air superiority since I will have very limited maneuverability until I have released my weapons and could easily be intercepted by enemy fighters. If you are playing online with hostile fighters around and want to use my tactic - make sure to have friendly fighters as escort.

 

...or just see if you can instead make a terrain-masked approach. :P

[Moa]

If you are in an A-10 then you can use the terrain-masked approach that EtherealN suggests. Any little gully and fold in the ground is your friend.

 

On a flat plain you could approach them in LockOn 1.12 by going very very low since the radar horizon decreases with altitude and you can fly low on flat terrain (there is historical precedent for this, eg. Operation Opera). Unfortunately at very low altitude you throw up a dust trail that fighters are drawn to. It takes practice to fly this low while watching for fighters and IR SAM launches.

 

In LockOn 2 you can still do this. Crawl at very low altitude into Maverick D launch range, launch (two missiles in case one is hit) and break perpendicular to the target. You must keep the target visible so you can see any launches. If you are launched on wait until the missile is close and then pull into the vertical. The high-speed of the missile and g-limit means it cannot turn with you and should pass underneath you. Dive down again once the missile is defeated. For this you must get very good at judging missile closure and also you altitude so you know exactly when to pull up so you don't hit the ground but don't balloon either.

 

Don't fly high, you will die. If there are any fighters about you cannot safely engage the Buk. Run away and let a Toad deal with it.

 

Most importantly, a SA-11 kill is not worth the loss of your (or any) aircraft. If you can't beat it then bring your aircraft home or find easier targets to kill. Suicide is for the n00b.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Moa

[baksie]

I tried several attemps even with 25 and 58 in the 25T but noticed that enemy shoots down my missiles :doh:

 

First of all they are really hard to spot on ground using any other weapons. Tried it also in a10 but they start launching before I can see and let alone target them.

[h00t74]

The SA-11 or BUK will go active around 32nm from it in game. It will launch on you around 15nm from it. Your best bet is to turn away from it put it on your 6 and pop chaff . You will avoid being hit. This is in an A-10. You can pick-up WHERE it is being fired from w/ Maverick but you can not see the unit itself. Your best bet is to avoid this or use terrain masking in the area.

 

Flying Low at 100ft It still fired on me on a flat plain....

[Moa]

Flying Low at 100ft It still fired on me on a flat plain....

 

100ft is high when engaging a Buk. Fly at 200 ft (as the real A-10 pilots are trained to). When you are this low Buks will not launch on you at 32 nm but much closer (closer to your AGM-65D launch range around 6 nm).

 

Drop to 30 or lower as you get close to the Buk, although you might temporarily pop up a tiny bit when launching missiles before diving back down again. As I said before, you have to practice to operate naturally at this altitude using sight alone to gauge you altitude. Avoid getting too close (don't get closer than your launch range unless there is cover lyou can use eading to the target!), engage each Buk seperately, making sure only one is close enough to launch.

Edited April 27, 2010 by Moa

[EtherealN]

I tried several attemps even with 25 and 58 in the 25T but noticed that enemy shoots down my missiles :doh:

 

Yeah - salvo them. A salvo of 6 will usually do, especially if you let him engage you first so that he wastes a couple missiles. Just remember to break off and extend the second your salvo has left the rails.

[SFJackBauer]

I tried several attemps even with 25 and 58 in the 25T but noticed that enemy shoots down my missiles :doh:

 

First of all they are really hard to spot on ground using any other weapons. Tried it also in a10 but they start launching before I can see and let alone target them.

 

I have attached a track from a test mission I made. Battery of four launchers, one search radar, skill excellent.

 

I wait until they start launching into me. Then I fire a 58 in the radar, and 2 25 in the launchers. First wave they get one missile, but lose the radar and one launcher. Notice that, since in the first wave I take out the search radar, how they become more sneaky since then they engage you without warning. And how is important to use terrain to mask your egress.

 

As a bonus, see my wing being ripped off in the end due to a reckless pilot :)

SA11.trk

[Boberro]

Make SU-24 Fencer with Su-25T cockpit and you will have dedicated SEAD plane... Imagine SEAD at 1100 km\h with Kh-31....

 

Su-25T cocpit in Su-24 fits well ;]

[Robin_Hood]

Not sure if it's possible. Maybe the game needs to recognize presence of a Phantasmagoria pod (since it worked for me in a Su-39). I will give it a try ;)

[Boberro]

I fly it on my server and people do.

 

Phantasmagoria works well, all missiles are working except Kh-59, Kh-35 and Kh-25MR.