Joysticks

[ChromeWasp]

center sprung joysticks ruin my flight simming

I don't know of a real aircraft with a center sprung stick

because it would be incredibly dangerous

 

So many people are having problems with trimming

but the real problem is the joystick centering

 

I saw a post with a joystick mod with hydraulics

now that is more like a real aircraft

 

I haven't tried a force feedback joystick

are they center sprung also?

 

The other problem is that most real life joysticks are held by the fingers - not the hand

 

But nearly all the joysticks available have wide bases so you ... can't ... use your fingers

 

Luckily I got the old AV8R which doesn't have the base - but the center springing is ridiculous

 

Surely it is possible to buy a joystick that is actually designed correctly:

 

a) with little airspeed flops according to the control surfaces

b) with airspeed resists

c) you can fly with just your fingers / arm relaxed on the desk

(I mean my glider is the most comfortable seat I know - but sitting at my desk with a massive plastic joystick and nowhere to rest my arm ...)

The solution is a joystick designed to be used on a desk - with the arm resting and just the fingers and wrist moving

It should be about 2 or 3 inches high - mounted very low and include:

 

a) throttle lever

b) pitch trim lever

c) decent hat switch x 2

d) dials x 2

e) plenty of switches (the av8r has 13 - very handy)

f) enough buttons so you don't need keyboard

g) of course the force feedback hydraulic finger joystick with no springs

h) analog thumbsticks x 2

 

plus when flying for real your arm usually lays across your lap

 

so a joystick which is floor mounted and placed between your legs would be ideal - I've tried putting my joystick on a box in the right position - but the base is too big - one solution would be a joystick with a very long stick - again like a real aircraft - that sits on the floor - the long lever arm would also overcome the annoying friction that short joysticks suffer from

 

I find it strange that the world is full of joysticks that are almost completely useless

 

ch products industrial division do a desk joystick that looks interesting - but center sprung again ...

 

So can anybody recommend a realistic joystick or are there inexpensive and good usb kits so you can build your own?

[Tangolima600]

I didn't read the whole thing but I'll answer the question about FF. A FF stick is not center sprung and flops when not powered. Once it is powered, there can be center force if the game or user asks for it. In BS, the stick will stay centered at the designated trimmed position. In FC2, stick center force varies depending on the aircraft and trim will move the stick's center just like in BS.

 

I currently use the Logitech G940 and I am very happy with it.

 

Hop that helps.

[CAT_101st]

The problem you are having may have to do with the BS being preset to FF on. To turn FF off you need to get Notepad ++ and edit the Producer.cfg file. Turn (ForceFeedbackEnabled =True) to False This is a common problem with the X52's. Once you do that the KA-50 will start to handel the way it is supose to. more or less with a non FF stick. Also keep in mind that the trim buton is actaveted on the releas not the push.

I hope this helps.

[ChromeWasp]

FF sounds good then // G940 would have to try one before splashing

Producer.cfg - I will check that out

 

* News break *

 

I dismantled my AV8R and removed the massive spring then I reassembled it

and wondered what to do about the flopping ...

... I cut up a sponge and fit pieces of it where the spring used to be and then tied a piece of string around them

 

End result ... now I fly like an angel (of death) - I can fly right up to enemy tank and just hover - do high speed low level 180 degrees coordinated turns - even started doing some basic aeros - I feel like a pilot again :-)

 

Plus stick will roughly hold position *and* I can recenter it by pushing the ring down

 

No way to change rudder spring though :-(

[ZQuickSilverZ]

I have had about the same experience as Tangolima600. I use a Microsoft Sidewinder ForcFeedback 2. Its an old stick to be sure but I have had it since 2001 and have not had a bit of problem out of it.

[ChromeWasp]

I will try and find a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 then

G940 looks good but it's too big and too much hassle

 

I was thinking about a new type of rudder control using pressure sensors

just a flat piece of flexible plastic with placemarkers for your feet

 

My AV8R-01 with center spring replaced by a car wash sponge is performing really well

 

The sponge is just strong enough to hold center position for trimming

but doesn't offer up any unrealistic resistance like a spring

also reduces the horrible friction problems

 

The general wisdom at my flying club is that if you use center sprung joystick at home and then get in a real aircraft - you are asking for trouble

and could even get killed

 

I did my worst ever real life landing after a rainy weekend on the simulator with a center sprung stick - in a key moment my brain reverted back to the incorrect sim inputs and caused a PIO

 

This world is a strange place - 95% of flight sim joysticks are unsuitable for flight sims - but 95% of people buying joysticks aren't pilots so they don't know

[EtherealN]

Word of warning regarding the G940: it had huge driver issues, and last I heard (a while ago though) those issues were not fixed yet.

 

As for real sticks being held by fingers, not by the hand - well... This is true for gliders and most TMG's. Fighter sticks and sticks in combat helicopters are usually a different thing, since you need your fingers to manipulate the various controls on the stick. Indeed, for most new fighters the stick is completely non-moving and instead read the pressure excerted by the hand.

 

That said, I have no problem at all flying Shark, FC2 and indeed the hog with my X52 even if I constrain myself to using only fingers. (Indeed, for close formations in FC2 it is even desired, to help avoid death-grip issues.) The issue in the Shark is that this deprives me of my trimmer button. ;)

Edited August 14, 2010 by EtherealN