Newbies guide/mavericks

[ckurowic]

Hello there. So, I've been reading the manual, doing the training exercises, viewing the videos, etc. What I have found is that all of these are, in a word, unhelpful. We need a beginners guide to the sim, period.

 

For example, everything regarding launching maverick missiles references this magical "TMS forward". That is great...after 5 hours of searching I've found that this is a special piece of hardware not listed under the games hardware requirements. I don't want to put the money into another joystick. I have several I use for X-plane 9. In addition, there is zero reference to TMS forward in the controls setup for DCS A-10C. My question is, how in the friggin' world do you launch a damned maverick missile WITHOUT the special A-10 hardware?

 

Please don't point me to another youtube video or PDF, I've viewed them all, seriously.

[kylania]

Less ranting, more understanding. First thing to understand, DCS: A-10C is a study sim. It's not a game, therefore a "beginner's guide" is going to be a much higher level than "Push this, push that" it will assume that you understand that "TMS Forward" means "Push the TMS HOTAS switch forward". It also assumes you know what TMS (Target Management System) and HOTAS (Hands on Throttle and Stick) mean.

 

It's up to you to remember which keyboard commands are mapped to which HOTAS function. It's kind of like someone saying "Press the brake pedal to slow the car" and you asking "But how the hell am I supposed to know which foot to use!? What's a brake pedal!? Do I need a special car?"

 

First thing you need to do is study the HOTAS key mappings so that when someone says TMS Foward you know they mean "LCtrl+Up". You should probably map this to whatever joystick you're using if you can.

 

Second thing is to reference posts like purpjj1's really nice one from eariler today. He broke down the Mav YouTube video from Tygerr in step by step text format, I think that's exactly what you're looking for:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=62525

 

Mavs are pretty easy once you get the basic steps down. Find the target with the TGP, mark it as SPI, slave your Mav to SPI, slew the Mav to get a lock, rifle!

 

Check out that post I linked, review your keymappings (especially the HOTAS stuff) and try again. You'll get it, just takes some time. :)

 

Edit:

 

You might also like this: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=62548

Edited November 27, 2010 by kylania

[Frederf]

You can fly DCS:A-10C with only a keyboard straight out of the box. It's not ideal but you can do it. A simple joystick gets you most of the way there in terms of enjoyment.

 

I would suggest having the keyboard command list as reference. One is available here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=991796&postcount=2 When someone says something like "China Aft Long" they are referring to the command. However your keyboard, joystick, etc. is set up to activate that command is up to you and infinitely customizable.

 

I'm going to speak about the absolutely most straight forward way to employ Mavericks. This isn't the easiest method by far but it's a good place to start to appreciate the basics.

 

Initial conditions assumed are approaching the target area in a normal cruise arrangement after a normal start up and take off. None of the weapon systems are prepared.

 

First thing you should do is prepare the weapon for employment. The AGM-65 in all its variants have various sensors and navigation equipment that take a little time to get ready. To power on the AGM-65 missile(s) on your A-10C you need to command "EO Power: On" via the menus of the MFCDs. You can do this either on the DSMS subpage MSL or on the MAV page itself. After you do this a timer will start counting up in time on a few of the MFCD pages.

 

After 3 minutes the Maverick is ready to be used and seeker video is visible on the MAV page as seen on any MFCD. Then the individual weapon itself must be selected for use. There are several methods to do this but the most simplest is to select the appropriate station from the DSMS page.

 

Now that the weapon is aligned and selected, the next step is to point the weapon's sensor at the desired target. This is where you'll see people talking about SPIs and SOIs, using the TGP or the TDC and slaving the Maverick to it. Those are nice but needlessly complex for first experience.

 

To change where the Maverick is looking and to give it various lock and unlock type commands the Maverick sensor must be the airplane's Sensor of Interest (SOI). There are several ways to do this but the one that relies on simple mouse clicks is to press the "MAV" button on any MFCD for the MAV page a second time after the MFCD is already on the MAV page. A large green box is added to the MAV page to show that the MAV is now SOI.

 

At any time before launch you must place the Master Arm switch to Arm to be able to actually fire the weapon.

 

Now the part that is simple to say but hard to do in practice... get the white crosshairs on the MAV page over the target you want to destroy. You can fly the airplane so the crosshairs are over the target, slew the seeker around with the slew controls, or a combination of the two. For the next part I'm assuming you've accomplished this.

 

Up until this point the only control you've used for utilizing the Maverick weapon has been mouse clicks in the cockpit and the slew controls if you used them. Once the crosshairs are over the desired target you must press the TMS Up command (briefly, if you hold it for more than a second it does something else) to command the Maverick to attempt a lock. For a few seconds after you press this command the Maverick will attempt to lock onto any viable target in the center of its crosshairs. If it cannot it will go into a "break lock" mode and you must press TMS Up again to command another lock attempt.

 

When you successfully get a lock the crosshairs will close and all that is left to do is launch the weapon by pressing the Weapons Release button command.

[Heli Shed]

Read and digest what Kylania and Frederf have said, then watch the 3 part video series. You'll be fine.

 

Please don't point me to another youtube video or PDF, I've viewed them all, seriously

All my videos explain the keyboard combination too, so may i suggest that this time you plug your speakers in?

 

'T'

[Gearbox]

ckurowic what stick and throttle do you currently have? The more HOTAS commands that can be mapped to your stick and throttle the better as long as it's done in a sensible fashion.

[ckurowic]

Let's clarify a few things. I have pilot training, so I'm not a newbie at flying in real life, nor sims. I was also with an A-10 unit for 5 years, the 172nd out of Battle Creek, MI. I know more about the A-10 than your average person, but a pilot of that rig I am not.

 

My main issue is that, while this may be a "study sim", nearly 700 pages is a bit excessive. Hell I didn't do that much reading for my masters degree. A clear, concise, newbie manual for this particular sim is in order, regardless of the rather elitist opinions out there.

 

Moving on, I know what TMS is. I know what HOTAS is. Simply saying, "TMS forward" doesn't help much considering the verbiage doesn't match the sim's keyboard mapping prefs. They call it "TMS up". That is not the same as forward.

 

The analogy about the car doesn't work here, sorry. Everyone knows how to drive a car. Not everyone knows how to fly a combat aircraft.

 

Don't take this as ranting, kylania, take it as constructive criticism (it is always hard to decipher someone's tone on the Internet). I do, however very much appreciate the reply and will take a look at the links you provided.

[ckurowic]

Read and digest what Kylania and Frederf have said, then watch the 3 part video series. You'll be fine.

 

Please don't point me to another youtube video or PDF, I've viewed them all, seriously

 

All my videos explain the keyboard combination too, so may i suggest that this time you plug your speakers in?

 

'T'

That was a rather snarky response, not appreciated.

[ckurowic]

You can fly DCS:A-10C with only a keyboard straight out of the box. It's not ideal but you can do it. A simple joystick gets you most of the way there in terms of enjoyment.

 

I would suggest having the keyboard command list as reference. One is available here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=991796&postcount=2 When someone says something like "China Aft Long" they are referring to the command. However your keyboard, joystick, etc. is set up to activate that command is up to you and infinitely customizable.

 

I'm going to speak about the absolutely most straight forward way to employ Mavericks. This isn't the easiest method by far but it's a good place to start to appreciate the basics.

 

Initial conditions assumed are approaching the target area in a normal cruise arrangement after a normal start up and take off. None of the weapon systems are prepared.

 

First thing you should do is prepare the weapon for employment. The AGM-65 in all its variants have various sensors and navigation equipment that take a little time to get ready. To power on the AGM-65 missile(s) on your A-10C you need to command "EO Power: On" via the menus of the MFCDs. You can do this either on the DSMS subpage MSL or on the MAV page itself. After you do this a timer will start counting up in time on a few of the MFCD pages.

 

After 3 minutes the Maverick is ready to be used and seeker video is visible on the MAV page as seen on any MFCD. Then the individual weapon itself must be selected for use. There are several methods to do this but the most simplest is to select the appropriate station from the DSMS page.

 

Now that the weapon is aligned and selected, the next step is to point the weapon's sensor at the desired target. This is where you'll see people talking about SPIs and SOIs, using the TGP or the TDC and slaving the Maverick to it. Those are nice but needlessly complex for first experience.

 

To change where the Maverick is looking and to give it various lock and unlock type commands the Maverick sensor must be the airplane's Sensor of Interest (SOI). There are several ways to do this but the one that relies on simple mouse clicks is to press the "MAV" button on any MFCD for the MAV page a second time after the MFCD is already on the MAV page. A large green box is added to the MAV page to show that the MAV is now SOI.

 

At any time before launch you must place the Master Arm switch to Arm to be able to actually fire the weapon.

 

Now the part that is simple to say but hard to do in practice... get the white crosshairs on the MAV page over the target you want to destroy. You can fly the airplane so the crosshairs are over the target, slew the seeker around with the slew controls, or a combination of the two. For the next part I'm assuming you've accomplished this.

 

Up until this point the only control you've used for utilizing the Maverick weapon has been mouse clicks in the cockpit and the slew controls if you used them. Once the crosshairs are over the desired target you must press the TMS Up command (briefly, if you hold it for more than a second it does something else) to command the Maverick to attempt a lock. For a few seconds after you press this command the Maverick will attempt to lock onto any viable target in the center of its crosshairs. If it cannot it will go into a "break lock" mode and you must press TMS Up again to command another lock attempt.

 

When you successfully get a lock the crosshairs will close and all that is left to do is launch the weapon by pressing the Weapons Release button command.

 

Outstanding response, much appreciated. I'll try what you suggested.

[ckurowic]

ckurowic what stick and throttle do you currently have? The more HOTAS commands that can be mapped to your stick and throttle the better as long as it's done in a sensible fashion.

 

I have a saitek throttle quadrant (three levers plus 3 rocker switchers), and a CH products flightstick pro with 3 buttons, trigger, and a hat.

 

edit: not that it matters much for this discussion, but I have saitek rudder pedals as well.

Edited November 28, 2010 by ckurowic

[nomdeplume]

My main issue is that, while this may be a "study sim", nearly 700 pages is a bit excessive.

 

A lot of people want to know all the relevant details for systems; there's no way you can possibly do without a long manual. But, have you read the short manual? That's only 19 pages and covers all the main things you need to know to be able to put weapons on target.

 

Simply saying, "TMS forward" doesn't help much considering the verbiage doesn't match the sim's keyboard mapping prefs. They call it "TMS up". That is not the same as forward.

Well, it is a beta; some additional thought may be required. It doesn't exactly take a rocket science to realise that Up/Forward got mixed up but refer to the same function. But if you don't have time to spend figuring out things that may be incorrectly described, or not yet functioning or otherwise busted; you might be better off waiting for the release version.

 

Everyone knows how to drive a car.

Only if they've been taught how. I don't know what country you live in, but around here we don't let anyone drive until they've taken lessons and passed a test to prove they've actually understood what they were taught. Even then, it's questionable just how many people on the road actually know what they're doing ...

[ckurowic]

A lot of people want to know all the relevant details for systems; there's no way you can possibly do without a long manual. But, have you read the short manual? That's only 19 pages and covers all the main things you need to know to be able to put weapons on target.

 

Well, it is a beta; some additional thought may be required. It doesn't exactly take a rocket science to realise that Up/Forward got mixed up but refer to the same function. But if you don't have time to spend figuring out things that may be incorrectly described, or not yet functioning or otherwise busted; you might be better off waiting for the release version.

 

Only if they've been taught how. I don't know what country you live in, but around here we don't let anyone drive until they've taken lessons and passed a test to prove they've actually understood what they were taught. Even then, it's questionable just how many people on the road actually know what they're doing ...

 

1)I have read the 19 page manual. It was somewhat helpful.

 

2) That takes major assumption. Forward and up are not even remotely related in terms of x y z coordinates.

 

3) My English should suggest the United States. And if you are referring to the U.S. that statement is total nonsense. Our graduated drivers licensing system is total crap. Don't get hung up on that, we are talking about a flight sim.

 

4) I figured out how to fire the mavs, and fire them well, from the helpful posters here. To those folks I say thank you.

[nomdeplume]

That takes major assumption. Forward and up are not even remotely related in terms of x y z coordinates.

 

I disagree. If one source is referring to "forward, back, left, right" on a control which has "up, down, left, right" as its actual possibilities, it's a pretty easy leap to make that "forward" is either "up" or "down". And it's pretty trivial to try it and find out which one it is. Not as if you're actually going to die if you guess wrong!

 

But mostly I was just trying to remind you it's a beta, and it's worthwhile approaching it with that mindset. If you expect the manual not to have any errors or inconsistencies, you're setting yourself up for frustration. Some trial and error is to be expected.

 

Our graduated drivers licensing system is total crap. Don't get hung up on that, we are talking about a flight sim.

You're the one that suggested that "everyone knows how to drive a car". I was merely trying to point out that it's a learned skill, and even people who have (allegedly) learned that skill often have difficulty with it. It may be second nature now, but it certainly wasn't the first time I was in the driver's seat of a moving vehicle!

[Weaponz248]

Hey Ckurowic Not sure if this will help but I was scanning the manual and i understand your frustration The manual seems to assume everyone has the warthog HOTAS. I read the C/L at the end and they have the button tho press and what happens EXAMPLE DMS FWD and AFT adjusts zoom level of TGP. So I would say what ever key bind on the keyboard adjusts zoom level would be the key to use. Just some advice. Im just trying to help out. Also I normal write all the joystick/throttle buttons on paper and write down what functions I use the most and map them that way.

 

 

Good luck Bud

[nomdeplume]

Not sure if this will help but I was scanning the manual and i understand your frustration The manual seems to assume everyone has the warthog HOTAS. I read the C/L at the end and they have the button tho press and what happens EXAMPLE DMS FWD and AFT adjusts zoom level of TGP. So I would say what ever key bind on the keyboard adjusts zoom level would be the key to use.

 

The manual doesn't assume you have the TM HOTAS, but it does refer to the actual controls the pilot would be using. Same thing as when it says to turn the TGP switch on; it doesn't assume you actually have a switch labeled "TGP", it just means to do whatever you do to flip that switch in game. It might be by clicking on it, or using a key binding, or a voice command, or just thinking really hard about it. So when it says "DMS FWD" it just means "do whatever you do to cause the command 'DMS FWD' to be sent to the game".

 

In the controls screen, one of the categories is "HOTAS". This lists every control which is on the real-life stick and throttle of the aircraft. You can bind these controls to your own stick, or use the keyboard commands.

 

There isn't a command listed to "adjust zoom level of the TGP". The keypresses for doing those are whatever are assigned to the "HOTAS DMS Up" and "HOTAS DMS Down" commands in the controls screen. Many of the HOTAS switches have a different function depending on what the current Sensor Of Interest is; which is what those tables in the manual show. DMS Up/Fwd changes the scale of the DMS if that's the SOI for example, or switches to the next waypoint if the HUD is the SOI.

 

There are some zoom commands available in the controls configuration, but they allow you to control the viewpoint (or "game camera" if you will), not a function of the aircraft.

[ckurowic]

Hey Ckurowic Not sure if this will help but I was scanning the manual and i understand your frustration The manual seems to assume everyone has the warthog HOTAS. I read the C/L at the end and they have the button tho press and what happens EXAMPLE DMS FWD and AFT adjusts zoom level of TGP. So I would say what ever key bind on the keyboard adjusts zoom level would be the key to use. Just some advice. Im just trying to help out. Also I normal write all the joystick/throttle buttons on paper and write down what functions I use the most and map them that way.

 

 

Good luck Bud

 

Exactly my frustration. I have figured it out, though. Thanks!

[Weaponz248]

Well as long as there is a keyboard list with the game all should be good. But reading through the manual it never once mentions a keyboard key press. In the end this is a computer simulation so key presses will be used if the manual referred to them as defaults or something it might be easier to get everyone going

[Weaponz248]

Exactly my frustration. I have figured it out, though. Thanks!

 

 

cool hope all is working well for you 4 more days till I get this sim! Cant wait

[ckurowic]

The manual doesn't assume you have the TM HOTAS, but it does refer to the actual controls the pilot would be using. Same thing as when it says to turn the TGP switch on; it doesn't assume you actually have a switch labeled "TGP", it just means to do whatever you do to flip that switch in game. It might be by clicking on it, or using a key binding, or a voice command, or just thinking really hard about it. So when it says "DMS FWD" it just means "do whatever you do to cause the command 'DMS FWD' to be sent to the game".

 

In the controls screen, one of the categories is "HOTAS". This lists every control which is on the real-life stick and throttle of the aircraft. You can bind these controls to your own stick, or use the keyboard commands.

 

There isn't a command listed to "adjust zoom level of the TGP". The keypresses for doing those are whatever are assigned to the "HOTAS DMS Up" and "HOTAS DMS Down" commands in the controls screen. Many of the HOTAS switches have a different function depending on what the current Sensor Of Interest is; which is what those tables in the manual show. DMS Up/Fwd changes the scale of the DMS if that's the SOI for example, or switches to the next waypoint if the HUD is the SOI.

 

There are some zoom commands available in the controls configuration, but they allow you to control the viewpoint (or "game camera" if you will), not a function of the aircraft.

 

Er....The actual controls the pilot would be using = what the the HOTAS replicates physically. It assumes you are using the $499 replica of the stick/throttle. If you don't see that, well I'm sorry. But the fact is it does assume you have it. Why else would it refer to physical buttons on that HOTAS for the A-10 if they didn't assume you had it? Also, the lack of accurate keyboard mappings to the various HOTAS controls further affirms they assume you have the hardware. Beta or not, not having the exact verbiage/ability to map to keyboard is a huge oversight.

Edited November 28, 2010 by ckurowic

[ckurowic]

cool hope all is working well for you 4 more days till I get this sim! Cant wait

 

It is an AWESOME sim. Having seen these bad boys close up for 5 years with an A-10 unit gives me some credibility, and I have to tell you they got these things dead on when it comes to looks/sounds at least. I'm not a pilot but have had flight training, and it flights very, very well, too. Well worth the $60 if you have a capable computer.

[ckurowic]

I disagree. If one source is referring to "forward, back, left, right" on a control which has "up, down, left, right" as its actual possibilities, it's a pretty easy leap to make that "forward" is either "up" or "down". And it's pretty trivial to try it and find out which one it is. Not as if you're actually going to die if you guess wrong!

 

But mostly I was just trying to remind you it's a beta, and it's worthwhile approaching it with that mindset. If you expect the manual not to have any errors or inconsistencies, you're setting yourself up for frustration. Some trial and error is to be expected.

 

You're the one that suggested that "everyone knows how to drive a car". I was merely trying to point out that it's a learned skill, and even people who have (allegedly) learned that skill often have difficulty with it. It may be second nature now, but it certainly wasn't the first time I was in the driver's seat of a moving vehicle!

 

Sorry you feel that way, but you are wrong. If it wasn't the first time you were in control of a moving vehicle (car) that was illegal, and you didn't know what you were doing. True, it is a beta, but that isn't any excuse to not have the proper control mappings correct, I develop myself and that is the first thing I make sure of.

 

Not sure where YOU grew up, but up and forward and VERY different things to us here in the U.S. You are the one assuming, not I.

[Weaponz248]

It is an AWESOME sim. Having seen these bad boys close up for 5 years with an A-10 unit gives me some credibility, and I have to tell you they got these things dead on when it comes to looks/sounds at least. I'm not a pilot but have had flight training, and it flights very, very well, too. Well worth the $60 if you have a capable computer.

 

 

I cant wait! I just got back from Afghanistan loading on these bad boys so Im stoked to test drive these! I have been working on the A-10 for 2 years now

[ckurowic]

I cant wait! I just got back from Afghanistan loading on these bad boys so Im stoked to test drive these! I have been working on the A-10 for 2 years now

 

Awesome! Thanks for your service. I personally haven't deployed with the A-10's, but was part of a unit for 5 years. We recently converted to an Airlift wing.

[kylania]

I cant wait! I just got back from Afghanistan loading on these bad boys so Im stoked to test drive these! I have been working on the A-10 for 2 years now

 

Someone posted a really neat video of A-10s and their crew/daily life in Afghanistan the other night. Really interesting look at what it's like for the rest of us. :)

[nomdeplume]

Er....The actual controls the pilot would be using = what the the HOTAS replicates physically. It assumes you are using the $499 replica of the stick/throttle. If you don't see that, well I'm sorry.

 

No no, the game is simulating an aircraft, including its controls. In order to make the virtual aircraft do something, you have to manipulate those virtual controls. There's a layer of abstraction here, out of necessity.

 

You have a set of physical controls connected to your computer. You use these to manipulate the "virtual controls" in the simulation. Your joystick doesn't have the same physical properties as the actual flight stick in the aircraft; that's why there's options for adjusting deadzones and response curves.

 

In an ideal world, the physical controls you're using would exactly match the virtual controls. But that's rarely achievable. Even worse, everyone's going to have a different set of physical controls available to them, usually with less buttons and whatnots than the virtual controls have. And that means everyone's going to have a different method for mapping their physical controls to the virtual ones. Hence that layer of abstraction: refer to the virtual controls, and then the reader can substitute whatever physical control they're using.

 

What's missing at the moment is an easy way to translate from the virtual action (HOTAS TMS Fwd) to the default physical assignments in the game. You can already find a few PDFs listing default keybindings on the forums created by users, and I'm pretty sure the release version of the game will include at least one.

 

Should the keypresses be listed in the manual whenever the control is referred to? Probably. It might help some people out, and the only drawback is making the manual a few pages longer. There's also a risk of them becoming misleading: after all, if you actually do need to use the keyboard for some of the HOTAS functions, you're probably going to remap them to single key-presses so they're easier to access; at which point the keys listed in the manual are suddenly incorrect.

 

I also think that in terms of understanding the aircraft's operation, referring to the actual controls is useful, rather than "to make the TGP the SOI, press this arbitrary keystroke". It's also useful for communication. If someone tells you "China Hat Forward Short" is used to toggle wide or narrow FOV on the TGP, you can make sense of that by remembering or looking up what key or button you use to issue that command. If I tell you that the "fire C" button on my x52 performs that function, that's not going to be very useful to you -- even if you happen to have an x52!

 

The fact that a HOTAS replicating the Warthog's controls actually exists is merely a happy coincidence. The terminology would still be the same even if it didn't. If you don't believe me, look at the Black Shark manual. Pretty sure you can't find a replica of the Ka-50 flight controls on the consumer market...

[Weaponz248]

BS came with a key card in the game folder. If you get default keys you can base everything you do off of that. Just like LOMAC you had default keys which you could change but you had that base to build off of. Thats all we need is a default key list that will give us a base. I guarantee it will take me 6 months at least to get a comfortable joystick profile to fly with but its all based off of default keys