HELIOS IS ALIVE

[airdog]

Out of most of the posted pictures I've seen, a lot of people are replicating the same gauges that are displayed in the DCS front view... is there a reason for the redundancy (not including the MFD's because I understand the replication with touchscreens or Cougars)?

If DCS allowed a 'gauge free' front view- I could see the point- but I'm not sure if that is going to be part of the final release or not. If not- what other gauges would people find useful for the secondary HELIOS display that aren't a replication?

Helios is no different than people that build whole complete pits. Everything they do is replicated in the game so why build it, right??? Helios does allow for a gauge free view....matter of fact you decide what you want and dont want. You decide where each panel and switch goes. You can just make the right console or just the left console or you can combine it to have a combination of both or a combo from the left, right and front consoles. Then when you are all done with that you can make panels for Black Shark...FC2...Falcon and soon other sims. This software can be used to program real switches taking all the lua scripting out of your hands and automating it for you...rotaries, encoders and switches all of them with 1 easy interface.

 

My default front view is set to only display from the fire handles up. With Helios i can see all my primary gauges and switch positions without ever losing my forward view or looking at them at a crazy angle. It's tough to explain but there is something to be said to having a full view up top, gauges with a glance down and the ability to just touch a switch and have it function. I now know what home pit builders feel with all the real switches at their finger tips and i'm getting it via the touch screen. There is talk tha the SCS may try to get ED to give us a HUD only cockpit....something like the ALT F1 view but with the canopy rails and hud glass...lets pray that ED is open to this. Helios has enhanced my enjoyment of this already great sim.

 

And no I am not paid by SCS to say all this...I am just a very satisfied beta tester and in about 2 weeks I will get to pay them for their outstanding software just as I did for ED.

[power5]

Yeah, and Helios does not change when you turn your head to look out the side of the cockpit, just like real pilots can turn their head to look out the side, but glance back with their eyes without changing their head point of view.

[Midwestboi]

This is good information to know. Since I haven't yet purchased either A-10C, TrackIR or installed HELIOS- I've been soaking in as much information as I can find- which these forums are good for. There is a lot of "this is what I've done" but not enough, "this is why I did it this way"- which is why I ask so many questions. To get the best experience possible from the start- I want to get the right setup and know the reasons WHY I need it. ;-)

After reading the last two replies, now I'm thinking I need to replace my secondary 17" standard monitor with a 20"+ widescreen- since I know the Cougar MFD's are going to take up 11" of the horizontal space. I know touchscreens are nice- but not in my budget atm.

[Flim]

The HP touch screens are getting close to $200

 

http://www.provantage.com/hewlett-packard-hp-em891a8-aba~7HEWA17A.htm

 

Well worth it!

[Midwestboi]

That definitely looks nice... but... I can get a new 20" monitor for $100 (plus free shipping)- which means I have money left for the TrackIR. ;-)

Edited January 1, 2011 by Midwestboi

[Flim]

Buying for a second screen?

 

if so, touch screen is still the way to go... you would be able to operate the entire cockpit from that one touch screen. For me , Helios and the touchscreens are just as important as track IR.

[Midwestboi]

Yes, my 42" TV is my main display- so I want a new, larger, secondary display. How can you operate the entire cockpit from one touch screen? Can you flip screens to different panels like the iPhone?

 

Edit:

After doing more research on that touchscreen HP monitor, I discovered that with WinXP, it will only function as a single-point touch, not two-point as with Win7. :-(

Edited January 2, 2011 by Midwestboi

[power5]

Hidden panels. I am still finishing up my hidden panel profile for HELIOS. I have the entire front panel on my 22" Touch and by pressing 1 of 3 buttons I can get access to the entire right panel of the cockpit and now working on the left side.

 

If you get a touch, you do not need to spend the money on MFD FRAMES. Important, there will be no display coming with your MFDs. So if you run helios on a touch, you have the MFDs exported and the touch ability that HELIOS offers. Look around for Refurbs. I picked up a 22" Samsung ld220z for $149 and the only thing that looks refurb is the bezel.

[Midwestboi]

Important, there will be no display coming with your MFDs.

DCS exports the MFD images to the secondary monitor- so there is a display for the frames- after you stick the frames to the monitor. I already ordered the Cougar MFD's... they should be here this coming week. Of course if I can find a decent touchscreen I could always resell the Cougars.

 

I take it HELIOS will work with only the single-touch function within WinXP?

 

P.S. Where did you get your refurb? I can't even find refurbished touchscreens on E-bay.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Midwestboi

[metalnwood]

If you get a touch, you do not need to spend the money on MFD FRAMES. Important, there will be no display coming with your MFDs. So if you run helios on a touch, you have the MFDs exported and the touch ability that HELIOS offers. Look around for Refurbs. I picked up a 22" Samsung ld220z for $149 and the only thing that looks refurb is the bezel.

 

I have thought about this a little bit as I already have the TM MFD's and am getting the 21.5" touchscreen.

 

The obvious reason to not get the TM MFd's is to save money and depending on the size or your touch screen is so that you can have smaller mfd's taking up less screen real estate, if you are happy to do that.

 

Now, all the pro's for having them.

 

They are real buttons :) I love that helios will give me lots of touchscreen buttons for everything else but real buttons have an allure and feel that is different.

 

If you want to export your mfds's on to the helios screen that means you have to run in windowed mode. I have a 5970 and am not ready to give up crossfire so that I can have them on the helios screen - besides, I only have one monitor thats touchscreen so the real eastate is better served for me to use as inputs, not outputs.

 

 

So it should be noted when saying you don't need them that you will loose fps to un in windowed mode and you may loose considerable FPS as you cannot run SLI/crossfire with that config. So for me at least I kept the crossfire and export to the bottom left/right of my center monitor with the TM MFD's around them.

[power5]

I did not know it was possible to uncrossfire a 5970. They do not work like normal cards. If you CF two 5870 you can only use the ports on one card. You can use all the ports on a 5970 up to 6 I think is the most.

 

Not sure about HELIOS, but DCS works with multi touch. I can touch and hold for a right click option. I did not even think XP had touch. Its not the preferred OS for touch at least.

 

I was never too fond of sticking a frame to my monitor.

 

 

Dont remember where I found that refurb. Couple months ago started looking into options for HELIOS and boom, google turned up a cheap touch. Wasnt a newegg or anything like that.

Edited January 2, 2011 by power5

[metalnwood]

A 5970 can be run as single core or in crossfire mode.

 

I the case of DCS to export to another screen you cannot run in crossfire mode because you must run windowed. So if you have anything, e.g. 2x5770's or 2x5780's you have to say goodbye to one of them if you want to put your mfd's on the helios screen.

 

Thats probably the most compelling reason for me to keep them on the main screen with the TM mfds.

[Midwestboi]

I don't have crossfire or SLI, so I'll just be running two displays from my main card. I've heard of more people having serious FPS when using crossfire or SLI versus running two displays from a single card.

As for the touchscreen- since I'm not planning to upgrade my gaming system (my primary computer is a laptop with Win7)... I can't justify spending $100 just to upgrade the OS on the gaming computer, then spend another $250 for a touchscreen, then $70 for Helios, etc etc. So I think I'll settle for buying the 20" non-touch monitor and velcro my Cougar's to them. ;-)

Edited January 2, 2011 by Midwestboi

[power5]

As long as it gets you in the virtual air.

 

With 2 monitors you will be in lots of trouble with a 512mb 3850. You will need a GPU upgrade I am betting.

[Midwestboi]

With 2 monitors you will be in lots of trouble with a 512mb 3850. You will need a GPU upgrade I am betting.

 

Not sure why you say that, I've run other sim games at highest settings and never had any problems... and I've read people with lessor graphics running dual monitors without any problems as well. So I guess we'll see.

[nebuluski]

Support for Other Input Hardware Interface Cards?

 

Hi Sheldon and Gadroc

 

will there be support in Helios for BI Gammaray V2, PHCC or BI Plasma MM2?

 

What size touch screen would you recommend for all switch panels? Or is it better to have 2 or 3 Touch Screens?

 

I have two cockpit rigs one with Eyefinity 6 Edition 5870 the other with two 5450's so could support more screens if needed. I am currently starting build of F16 Cockpit so eventually intend to use 6 screens for this! Will be using your ACES II for this!

 

Cheers

[Flim]

Hey!

 

We are building most of the pits based on 3 consoles. I'm currently using 3 screens.

 

I would say one 23 incher for the front, and (2) 22 inchers will work for the consoles.

 

I'm also using 5870*6 with all 4 screens ( 3 for Helios, and 1 main 46 incher)

 

All is working very well!

 

For the PHCC, we have thought about bringing this in... but we need to get the software out of beta first.

Edited January 2, 2011 by Flim

[Midwestboi]

Ok... so I figure... if I am going to have to upgrade- then I might as well go all out. So I just canceled the order for the new 20" monitor- so I can eventually go for the 21.5" touchscreen.

 

Here is my question- will upgrading to a Radeon HD 5850 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 give me good results with the A-10- or will I also need to consider further upgrades?

Win7 is another possible upgrade- which would also give me better functionality with the touchscreen. But as for my CPU and memory?? The dual core 2.5 is oc'd to 3.3 Ghz- and upgrading to 4G of RAM would be fairly cheap too.

 

So all in all- $250 for the video card, $110 for Win7 upg, and $85 for memory-> $445.

 

Would this be good enough to run the A-10C at respectable rates along with HELIOS output to the touchscreen?

[power5]

Move fast and you can pick up a 5870 from NE for $199.

 

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1572980

 

Smoking deal. I bet they are not that low with no rebate for at least another 6 months.

 

Why are you spending $85 on 2gb of ram also?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231144

[Flim]

Get the 5870 or better... I'm getting very good fps on my setup.

 

you can use one touchscreen for the entire pit, but 3 is the ultimate goal so you can display the full cockpit without tabbing.

[Midwestboi]

Move fast and you can pick up a 5870 from NE for $199.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1572980

 

Smoking deal. I bet they are not that low with no rebate for at least another 6 months.

 

I just checked it out- it DOES sound like a sweet deal, so I am seriously considering it (I have until Wednesday for the deal). I also read the reviews about the 'grey screen of death' problems with the 5800 series- yet some people have the problem and some don't. I wonder if it is a motherboard compatibility problem- I read in one forum where a certain motherboard manufacture was having nothing but problems with 5800 graphics card.

 

Why are you spending $85 on 2gb of ram also?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231144

 

Well... I had heard that you get lower performance when you fill all four memory slots- versus only running two banks- or is that nothing to worry about? Saving $35 would be nice.

 

So you think my current architecture (CPU/Motherboard) are fine as is?

Edited January 3, 2011 by Midwestboi

[power5]

There is a real difference between benchmark performance and real world experience in the computer world. You see test sites all talking about how an intel system blows away AMD. Then when you really start to look at numbers you may realize how close it actually is. Sure, it may take an extra minute at most to encode a full DVD. Umm, ok. So it takes 1:35 instead of 1:34 or something. Or, look at FPS. Sure they all claim that a 570 destroys a 5870. Difference may be 5-10fps. If you are in the danger area of like 30fps, that is important, but you will be in the 50-60 range with a 5870 so a $200 card is much better than a $350 card that barely edges out the much cheaper one.

 

I have a 4890 and a very similar CPU setup as you. I am on W7 though. I have not checked my CPU stresses and GPU stresses in game to see how much of a bottleneck my CPU is on my GPU or if its the other way around. I would guess the GPU is my FPS bottleneck more than my cpu though. Since DCS does not really use multiple cores that well, clock speed is more important than cores still. I can almost assure you that you will need a better GPU to power 2 screens if you dont want to game on the lowest graphics settings. The GPU is your bottleneck right now and will be more so when you get a second monitor. If you are looking to upgrade, you really need to jump on that 5870. I have to keep talking myself out of buying it right now.

 

Ram performance will be un noticeable. Most of that performance hit is from trying to get absolute maximum over clock numbers. You should see no problems with 4 sticks. Both sets will run in dual channel. You will see a slight increase in performance from 2gb to 4gb. Biggest problem is that you can only use another .5gb when you upgrade to a 1gb GPU. 32 bit OS can only have 3.5gb of TOTAL memory in system including the GPU memory. You need to step up to w7 64bit and leave the 90's era of 32bit OSes. :)

 

I just sat on the runway in the battle command mission. Straight ahead I was at 22FPS, left looking back enough so that the MFD was not in POV I was at 31. Right same deal so MFD was out of POV I was at 20. Back 20. Straight up 60. This was without zooming at all. Settings are Low preset. No blur. 1360x768 res. 1024 cockpit displays. 8x MSAA. full screen. HDR. TSAA. 500m clutter. Could not do your 1080p resolution because my main monitor is a 16:10 22". Anyway, try yours and see what you get.

 

Frnt 22FPS

RT 20FPS

Lft 31FPS

Back 20FPS

UP 60FPS

Edited January 3, 2011 by power5

[Midwestboi]

"Anyway, try yours and see what you get." Since I don't own the A-10C sim yet, I cannot compare.

 

However, I more than likely will order the 5870- I just hope Newegg is quick to refund the canceled monitor order.

 

I'm debating the whole upgrade dilemma. Thankfully the 5870 and Win7 can move with me to an upgraded system- but the extra RAM would not. I just worry that upgrading to a super graphics card- would then shift the pressure over to the oc'd E5200 to catch up.

 

I priced out an upgrade to an i7 system yesterday and it was roughly $1000 (including the graphics card and Win7). That price is tough to justify for a system I only plan to use for gaming and simming- which I don't do that much- but hope A-10C would change that.

 

I just spent $700 a couple of months ago to get this laptop- which I have used to replace my desktop (which became the gaming system). However, I'm not exactly thrilled with it as my main system. It is an i5 with Win7 and runs great, does all my video/photo editing without a problem... but I find myself making so many typos it's irritating. LoL! Plus, since I've owned it, I think I've actually only taken it off my desk twice. So now I'm debating selling the laptop- then upgrading the desktop with the funds from the sale. What I would need tho, is to be able to run THREE monitors off the 5870. Two DVI and one HDMI. I'd hook my tv (main gaming display) up to the HDMI, then DVI to the monitor on my desk and DVI to the secondary gaming monitor (touchscreen). This way I wouldn't have to move the monitor on my desk back and forth for the secondary gaming monitor. Is there anything special I'd need to do this- or can I just plug all three in and go? During gaming- I'd switch off the desk monitor as I obviously wouldn't be needing it at that time. ;-)

 

So that is my dilemma. The Radeon HD 5870 for sure, but debating the rest.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Midwestboi

[Flim]

I built an I7 950 system for about 1100 with 64 ssd , 5870 *6 2 gig , gigabyte x-58, 6 gig , new power supply.

 

All is good and I can normally run around 50 to 60 on four screens. I use HUD only a lot due to having the touchscreens/Helios and this will improve the FPS. I see 100 fps at higher altitudes.

[power5]

You will be fine with your CPU for now. Ram helps with texture loading I believe. The more textures that can be in ram the less stuttering you get. but really at $30 you are not throwing away that much when you do upgrade. I have been wanting to upgrade my CPU for 1.5 years now and I just cant justify it since I do not really need more cores for anything I do. Sure, I could get an 8400 and clock it to 4ghz and get a little better performance, but I would be buying a 2 year old CPU for a few FPS and a lot of money. A 970 from AMD is only about $25 more and is current and has 4 cores and should do 4ghz as well. But that requires switching to AMD which I want to do, but then I have to choose between staying DDR2 and using my too slow to fully utilize the AM3 platform ram, or stepping to DDR3. Ram has come back down in price, so its not that bad again, but still need $100 of ram and a $150 mobo. I have decided to just stick with what I have and upgrade the rest of my cockpit. TIR and hopefully another Touch this year. That would give me 3 monitors 2 as touch. If you want to take load off the CPU, crank all the graphics all the way up and your GPU will be plenty stressed.

 

I am not sure how eyefinity works. Not sure if you need the active display port adapter to be able to run 3 monitors in windows. I think if you want more than 2 monitors you need to have the adapter though. So, the cheap way to do it would just be to switch one monitor plug when you go from TV to gaming. If you want all 3 connected all the time, I think you need the DP adapter which is like $80. OR, you keep your 3850 and plug in a monitor to that.

 

Ditch the lappy. I have also debated getting one for the house. I have a HTPC and my Gaming PC but my HTPC is mainly used for watching movies or HULU and it sucks to try and surf the web from the couch since I can not see what I am typing in the address bar. I wish there was an app that would zoom to that bar when you click on it like smartphones do. I am waiting for more tablets to hit the market so I can get a cheap one for the purpose of couch surfing.