Intermediate-to-advanced Mission Editor queries, help appreciated

[Bahger]

I'm putting together a very promising dawn Special Forces insertion mission in which 3 helos drop 3 small SF squads and a FAC unit into a village to capture or kill a High Value Target (HVT, i.e. insurgent leader). Flying CAS in his A-10, the player's role is to interdict 2 Shilkas near the LZ before the helo drop and then to follow orders from the FAC unit, which will deploy and activate when in position. When the FAC enters a trigger zone on its way to the WP at which it its FAC commands are activated, a trigger will make the HVT group appear (ROE weapons hold so that they do not pick a fight with the SF groups). When the player calls the briefed freqency for the FAC, he will then receive a 9-line brief to take out the HVT with an LGB.

 

The mission is working beautifully so far but I do not know if it is possible to playtest certain FAC/JTAC routines using AI only. Flying it myself will take a lot more time. I'd really appreciate guidance from ME gurus on any or all of the following issues:

 

- Copying a successful JTAC mission made by another user, I have arranged the FAC's tasks in the right order and placed three extra units whose

presence seems to make JTAC work properly, i.e. 2x "US Static Predators" and a Nav point, "Ford". I'm hoping this will make the 9-line procedure work, plus laser or smoke to mark the target.

 

- I have placed the FAC WP in line-of-sight to the target, which spawns in by trigger when the FAC unit nears its WP. How important is LOS in this

process and how can I judge it? Are there distances, or rules for LOS?

 

- 2 enemy locations spawn in for the FAC's attention: An Insurgent "Small House Area 1" and, placed directly beneath that, the HVT unit, which is 4

Insurgent infantrymen with weapons hold ROE. The specific target assigned to the FAC is the latter group, named "HVT". Can the FAC "see" individuals

or should I place the HVT in a larger structure or vehicle and make that the FAC's target? Can a FAC target any enemy unit?

 

- I have not been able to get the AI Hog flight (which will be the player's

flight) to attack the HVT location. I am wondering if this is because

either:

 

i. The presence of Blue SF on the ground is judged by the AI as "danger close", invalidating any attack orders, or

 

ii. A human player needs to fly the a/c to get FAC/JTAC routines to work. It will take me a lot more time to playtest the mission if this is the case. Is

it?

 

The reason for these questions is that every aspect of the mission -- the interdiction of the Shilka with Mavericks, the coordination of this with the

helo drop, the drop itself and the deployment of the infantry -- works wonderfully but the FAC aspects seem resistant to testing in an AI-only version of the mission.

 

I'd be happy to post the mission if any ME power-user interested in co-authoring it might like to take a look. Failing that, some guidance re. the

above would be very welcome, as the ME is terrific and this promises to be a very good mission which I intend to share with the community when it is

working 100%.

[Grimes]

I don't think AI use JTAC. The only instance in previous ED games where AI seem to actually communicate with one another is when they are in the same group. In other words if 2 A-10s in the same group attack a convoy they will not both fire on the same target at the same time. However if you have 2 groups of 1 A-10 in each group they will likely attack the same unit at the same time.

 

Unless an attack group order is given to AI there is a chance they will not detect the intended target.

 

If you assign the group the FAC will always know of the group. Otherwise they are just in "search mode" and will only have targets if they have spotted the group. Not sure what Line Of Sight rules they follow. I haven't tested with JTAC much because it doesn't work online, which in my opinion if it doesn't worth both online and offline I wouldn't call it a working feature. -_-

 

You gotta test JTAC yourself. There are a few things you can do to speed it up.

1. Spawn everything in the air near the objective.

2. If the Shilka's are critical to the triggers either temporarily remove them (and the trigger logic) or make a trigger to automatically kill them. "Add radio button X, Flag i" With another trigger Flag i is true explode shilka's.

3. Test JTAC

Edited December 7, 2010 by Grimes

[Bahger]

Hey thanks, Grimes. After a less than fully efficient process of trial-and-error I managed to get JTAC functioning very impressively in a night mission that spawns the FAC (a SpecOps team) via helicopter insertion. 9-line and laser guidance work perfectly and the proximity of friendly troops is accurate acjknowledged. Having got that done as the "kernel" of the mission, I can now build out the scenario around it.

[kylania]

Sounds fun, looking forward to it!

[Bahger]

Thanks Kylania. It took hours of effort, days in fact, but it's working like the proverbial Swiss watch now, with a lot going on "under the hood" to enable successful AI coordination of goodies like a SpecOps helo insertion, illumination bomb, helo extraction, Strike Eagle CAS and a FAC team inserted with the SpecOps boys, activated by trigger when in position and ready with the 9-line and laser guidance to the target. All of this just pre-dawn, in low-light conditions which will test your targeting skills.

 

The mission is to kill a bad guy (a "High Value Target" in mil-lingo) who intel reports to be hiding out in a reinforced bunker in a village; it's called "Taking Out the Trash". I just finished a detailed brief. Let me know if you want to Beta-test it, it's basically ready.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Bahger

[Druid_]

I did something similar (no JTAC) for Black SHark.

 

However, not wishing to put your fire out as its always great to have keen mission builders out ther but ... wouldn't it be wise to wait until final release? You may well find that your mission will break each time a new beta comes out. If you don't mind the rewriting & retesting each time then push forward.

 

Also at this stage you really don't know if its the ME and your coding thats causing problems or if there are bugs still involved. Having said that I'd be happy to test it for you though, just post it up.

[mikecaro]

I will be happy to test your mission Bahger, also I'm currently working on a mission scenario, and I will share my mission when its done.

[Bahger]

Thanks guys. Druid, much to my surprise, my first mission survived the transition from Beta 2 to Beta 3 flawlessly. I think the flight model is what is most affected by Beta adjustments but if you have a human, not AI, flying the A-10 in an updated version, the results will probably be ok. It's when you try and run a track made in a previous version that things get hairy, because then you have AI flying your airplane. Just a theory. I don't think missions made in one Beta are incompatible, or unplayable in the next but I guess they have to be re-tested and tweaked each time.

 

I'll post the mission later today, hopefully, thanks for your interest.

[Druid_]

I hope you're right. I remember when BS was patched after final release and half my missions needed a rewrite. I do believe features are set in stone so chances are you'll be fine its just that getting the mission balance and playablity right in a Beta is quite hard methinks. I'm seriously looking forward to the release, then I'll be mission writing away.

[Bahger]

OK gents, here is the mission: "Taking Out the Trash".

 

I really like it, I must say. I've made detailed scenarios in many sims, from Steel Beasts through ArmA 2, with F4AF in between; I like this Mission Editor (I didn't get BS).

 

I'm going to post it here only for the moment, as there is one tiny issue that niggles me a little: despite placing a waypoint ("Ford") on my egress route to the south, I cannot get the FAC to acknowledge this in the egress tasking and he advises egress to the north.

 

Oh, and I don't think I've managed to get the illumination bomb to work.

 

I must confess I'm still using simplified radios but soon I'd like to learn how to incorporate radio messages into mission design, hoping it will be possible to hear radio chatter from other mission elements like the Strike Eagle CAS and the helos; can it work this way?

 

The mission has been thoroughly tested but I am eager to have your unvarnished opinions. It is reasonably tactical and realistic with lots of triggers, flags and secondary activity. There is a half-hour ingress from takeoff; I won't apologise for that, it's more real and delivers a proper sense of optempo. Things get hectic later, as you have two separate objectives that require two separate weapons systems and one uses JTAC. It's dawn and half-light, so you'll need to trust your systems and watch out for radio text messages to enhance your situational awareness, especially when waiting for the FAC to hit the ground and get online. Although the brief says TOT is mission-critical, nothing bad will happen if you are late except that the helo flight will have to linger longer at its WP waiting for you to destroy the AAA. Altitude is discretionary, so that's a good way to gain/lose time.

 

Please let me know what you think; readers of this thread are the only folks with access to it for the moment.

[mikecaro]

Flown your mission this morning, so...great mission!!! The JTAC drop by helo its a superb idea!! No glitch... except in loadout... add more fuel because I had to land in another airfield!!!

[Bahger]

Thanks a lot, Mike. I'm so glad it behaved essentially as it should, there's nothing worse than realising you've made some stupid mistake that has wasted the time of someone kind enough to beta-test your mission.

 

I will add fuel. What was the problem with the loadout? You should have had 4x AGM 65D Mavericks for the Shikas and GBU-10s for the bunker, no?

[mikecaro]

No problem with the load out, I was meaning about the fuel in the loadout menu!!! sorry my bad english!!

[Druid_]

Why not put a KC135 refueler in there so if you want to make it back to base or loiter longer you'll have to Air to Air refuel.

 

Havent flown mission yet, need to reinstall a10c beta3 (unstable at the mo).

[Bahger]

Yeah, I'd like to do that, Druid but I have no idea yet how to place/plot a route for the tanker or do the refeuling. Can you possibly give me the essential basics of a tanker mission? Meanwhile I will RTFM.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Bahger

[Druid_]

I posted some info here , after some testing it appears that tanker orbiting is broken unless you place no wind near the tankers altitude.

 

Here is a mission file with just a tanker set up to transmit on 131.0 AM and radiate air to air tacan on channel 10X. KC-135 will hit a waypoint then set up a race-track orbit.

 

Points to note: Set tanker speed at 460k/hr, set his fuel state to 50% max (so he can fly slower). To use radios to call him make sure you switch off your tacan (known bug).

tanker test.miz

[wickedfastball]

Hey Bahger. Flew your mission a few times yesterday. Will fly more today. I like it! Fun, simple (but not too simple), multiple facets (air drop of FAC, fast-movers watching your back), very nice. I did bump the fuel a bit as the first time I flew I ended up landing with maybe 200lbs left. Was sweating it the last few miles!

 

Also, and this is a point for mission creators in general, we need to be sure all needed frequencies are in the briefing. The flight frequency in this case. Really, the ME should automatically put that in the "mission data" section (or wherever else is appropriate). Unless you go into the editor and look for yourself you have to guess once you are in flight.

 

Also, and I know this is operator error, but I had problems getting the GBU-10 to release to the FAC's laser designator. Need to study that procedure more and practice.

 

All in all, excellent work! I know I intend to use this as motivation to create missions myself and I hope other folks do so as well.

[wickedfastball]

I have a TOT question. I bumped the mission start time back 20 minutes to allow for a ramp start. Doing that did not change the TOTs for each mission waypoint so I end up being late. Do you have to change the mission waypoint TOTs individually or are they linked somehow? I'm going to experiment but was wondering if there was a trick to it.

[Bahger]

@Druid: Many thanks for the tanker .miz, it's really helpful to have something like this in the absence of an official training mission and thanks to you I will probably be able to get refeuling under my belt over the holidays.

 

@wickedfastball: Thanks for playing it and for the constructive comments. I will publish the mission later today with both additional fuel and radio freqs in the briefing.

 

@wickedfastball: I have found, through bitter experience, that messing with the mission start time can screw everything up beyond repair. The TOT at the A-10's first IP is checked, which means that it cannot be changed until it's unchecked; that might be what's getting in the way for you. Maybe then you can move the mission start back, reset the TOT and give yourself another checked time for the A-10 WP 1 20 minutes into the mission to allow for a ramp start. You'd also have to adjust start times and the IP TOT for the helicopters, too. I'm sorry this is so tortuous but I have found the synchronisation of mission times and mission start time to be very temperamental and unreliable in the A-10 Beta. I had to rebuild both the Hog and chopper routes from scratch several times when the ME would not let me correct or resolve changes in wp times. Making things even worse was the need to calculate indicated airspeed from true sirspeed, which is the only input format in the ME (not to mention the altitude conversions from meters to feet). This is my least favorite aspect of the ME. It's so rackety, in fact, that in future I might have to make two separate versions of the mission with separate start times, one for a ramp start and one for a runway start. If you succeed in converting it, please let me know. The IP TOT for the A-10s is the only "locked" time. except for the launch times.

[JaBoG32_Prinzartus]

Hey Bahger. Flew your mission a few times yesterday. Will fly more today. I like it! Fun, simple (but not too simple), multiple facets (air drop of FAC, fast-movers watching your back), very nice. I did bump the fuel a bit as the first time I flew I ended up landing with maybe 200lbs left. Was sweating it the last few miles!

 

Also, and this is a point for mission creators in general, we need to be sure all needed frequencies are in the briefing. The flight frequency in this case. Really, the ME should automatically put that in the "mission data" section (or wherever else is appropriate). Unless you go into the editor and look for yourself you have to guess once you are in flight.

 

Also, and I know this is operator error, but I had problems getting the GBU-10 to release to the FAC's laser designator. Need to study that procedure more and practice.

 

All in all, excellent work! I know I intend to use this as motivation to create missions myself and I hope other folks do so as well.

 

I was also unable to get the GBU-10 released, dunno why yet.

I got the laser locked onto the FAC Laser via LSS. However the CCRP Mode refused to release my gbu-10s for 10-12 apporaches, before i gave up and knoked it off.

 

However, the mission was/is very nice!

[Bahger]

JaBo, that's a drag (excuse the pun). Are you holding down the bomb release button for long enough? Are you making sure that you are wings-level (release mode is 3 -9, which requires wings-level on release). Did you make the LSS spot track your SPI? I've noticed that the LGB will release even if the Azimuth Steering Line is outside the circular recticle but I imagine there is a limit, are you sure you are meeting all the release parameters?

 

I've never experienced this problem. I'm afraid it's operator error not a mission-design issue but I'm happy to do whatever I can to assist.