Missile Discussion

[GGTharos]

[Groove: This thread is a essence from another thread which was derailed by this side discussion plus personal attacks. I have decided to let this discussion continue but obviously everyone have to behave.]

 

 

Please show me who's buying the P series seekers, because so far, I haven't seen any airforce touting them about. By all accounts, anti-air ARM would seem to be a flop so far, probably for somewhat obvious reasons.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Groove

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Please show me who's buying the P series seekers, because so far, I haven't seen any airforce touting them about. By all accounts, anti-air ARM would seem to be a flop so far, probably for somewhat obvious reasons.

How do you know nobody is buying the P missile? K-27 program was designed from ground up as modular, where the only difference in the missile type is the seeker. Thus, there could be purchased active/passive seekers on stand by and installed on K-27 series as needed.

 

But the missile (seeker) exist, it is there and it is for sale. And yes, it is "modeled" :smilewink: in real life.

 

How good it is? Nobody dared (yet) to check it out.

 

 

Reminder: SAM = Stealth STOP!

[GGTharos]

Nobody even seems to care to check it out. In the absence of better information, I don't see why anyone would buy a gimmick missile.

[RIPTIDE]

Please show me who's buying the P series seekers, because so far, I haven't seen any airforce touting them about. By all accounts, anti-air ARM would seem to be a flop so far, probably for somewhat obvious reasons.

Is that this one? http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/506/

 

That would be cool in FC2.0. But then again, just blink the radar and gone. But something else to think about. :)

 

There is that photo also, I wonder has it been tested yet.

Edited December 9, 2010 by RIPTIDE

[RIPTIDE]

Where is the EM?

Just guessing... but I doubt they'll be selling the EM. Only a handful of Su-33 now, with very few requirements for EM in this day and age. Also with MiG's stepping into the Carrier borne role they'll probably have a successor. Can anyone tell me even if the EM's were operationally deployed?

[GGTharos]

So many good sources out there and because the truth hurts most of the time, some choose to ignore it and stay happy.

 

Show me a SINGLE credible source that shows any one air force operationally using them. Just one. What's next, AIM-54's on F-15C's because NASA did it? How about PAC-3's on F-15's because they were proposed by Raytheon?

 

Is that this one? http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/506/

 

That would be cool in FC2.0. But then again, just blink the radar and gone. But something else to think about. :)

 

There is that photo also, I wonder has it been tested yet.

 

That is the one. Also the radar can switch modes during guidance, or just not be in STT at all, and you end up with a wasted missile. It was just not worth the effort when a SARH or ARH missile has a higher probability of hitting.

[GGTharos]

AFAIK it never even got kicked out the door.

 

Just guessing... but I doubt they'll be selling the EM. Only a handful of Su-33 now, with very few requirements for EM in this day and age. Also with MiG's stepping into the Carrier borne role they'll probably have a successor. Can anyone tell me even if the EM's were operationally deployed?

[RIPTIDE]

Show me a SINGLE credible source that shows any one air force operationally using them. Just one. What's next, AIM-54's on F-15C's because NASA did it? How about PAC-3's on F-15's because they were proposed by Raytheon?

 

 

 

That is the one. Also the radar can switch modes during guidance, or just not be in STT at all, and you end up with a wasted missile. It was just not worth the effort when a SARH or ARH missile has a higher probability of hitting.

 

Thanks.

 

Anyway I sent an email to JSC there now. I'll let you know if I get a reply.

[GGTharos]

I hope if you get one that it's ... useful. Good luck, I'm curious to know :D

[Presing]

Offtopic:

 

 

What i read and talk about R-27P missile is the main purposes was to hunt down the AWACS. He can not turn off radar any time he wish and his radar strength is quite enough to guild the missile. It's not for use against fighter radar. Why none have it? Russian have it but they are not crazy to go in war against America (read NATO) so the missiles are probably rotten somewhere in bunkers. Anyway the missiles are not need it but if you are crazy enough start WW3 they are there for buying.

 

Best Regards

Presing

 

 

P.S. I wont give you guy's my resources. Find it by yourself.

 

 

[FLANKERATOR]

It seems that the current missiles in developpement meant to disable an AWACS are the KS-172 and the R37 with planned ranges of 215 and 160 NM. They have already been advertised and displayed in many occasions and China seems very interested in funding the production licenses.

 

I don't think its a hopeless technology in A2A combat since a similar seeker is in developpement for the adder (R-77P/R-77P-PD). The R77 is an up to 12G maneuvering target killer so it is definitely meant to be used against fighters unlike a hypothetical AIM-54 for the F15.

 

Please share the reply RIPTIDE once you get one.

[GGTharos]

The KS-172 already had its guidance switched to ARH instead of ARM, IIRC.

 

ARM against air to air isn't very useful - an AWACS antenna will either rotate or operate in a very low side-lobe ESA mode that will make it difficult for an ARM to get anywhere near it - just my hypothesis.

 

And if you can't show sources for Russians having them, then I don't believe you - I've already looked and there has been nothing credible out there.

[Boberro]

I've heard Russians could use Kh-31 against wax, I guess it is hypothetical, theoretical possibility only.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Just guessing... but I doubt they'll be selling the EM.

There is no EM missile, it doesn't exist. No pictures of EM whatsoever ... Unlike EA. There are pictures of EA, there is a seeker for EA. P missile is a real missile and it does exist, and it is offered for sale.

 

Russians have not had much of a need for EA, R-77 or P missile, thus, they never put any emphasis (did not waste money) to build many of them. If they ever need them, they can have them in no time (relatively low time) ....

[RIPTIDE]

send a PM too Assange he knows it... :)

:megalol:

 

 

Someone translate the following into Russian please so i can copy paste and resend.

 

Hi

 

I am a aviation enthusiast. I was wondering if JSC/Vympel have produced the R-27EP1 or R-27P1 and has it been tested? And if so has this missile been supplied to the Russian Airforce or has it been exported?

 

Thank You

 

Neil

[Sov13t]

Здравствуйте,

 

Я интересуюсь авиацией, и хотел бы узнать если ракеты Р-27ЭП1 или Р-27П прошли полный цикл испытаний и были ли они поставлены в ВВС России либо на экспорт?

 

Спасибо,

 

Нил

[RIPTIDE]

Здравствуйте,

 

Я интересуюсь авиацией, и хотел бы узнать если ракеты Р-27ЭП1 или Р-27П прошли полный цикл испытаний и были ли они поставлены в ВВС России либо на экспорт?

 

Спасибо,

 

Нил

Sent. Thanks! S!

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Riptide, if you want to know the general info of the P, EP missiles here's the link

http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/506/

 

For the price of the missile ... Well, you would have to buy Su/MiG first ... :)

[RIPTIDE]

Riptide, if you want to know the general info of the P, EP missiles here's the link

http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/506/

 

For the price of the missile ... Well, you would have to buy Su/MiG first ... :)

Hajduk. With respect, I want to find out if it ever has been tested and manufactured in any quantity. You'll agree that the bar has to be set somewhere. I think its reasonable to entertain a weapon system if we can see that its tested and is in stock... somewhere.. even in small quantities. We know the bar already. We have a dozen or so Ka-50's and same of 25T's and that seems sufficient for ED. Both were tested and used, albeit in a small scale. If we thought P's were about, even modular, we could then discuss it as a real weapon.

 

And anyway, I won't need a Su/Mig. I'll strap that bad boy on the back of a pickup, run jumpleads from the battery via a inverter and fire that bad boy off and shoot down teh F-15's and Stealths!

 

Reminder: R-27EP strapped on Pickup = Stealth Stop!

 

Like this:

 

[Boberro]

Have those R-27EPs ever been photographed in more real situation than producer mock up or exhibition?

[Pilotasso]

We have a dozen or so Ka-50's and same of 25T's and that seems sufficient for ED. Both were tested and used, albeit in a small scale.

 

The reason was another entirely, it was because ED had access to documents, not because of the number ED thought to be sufficient. Furthermore, R-27Ep's would be something Russia would export to countries it didnt trust to sell ER instead. EP's would have such low PK...

[RIPTIDE]

The reason was another entirely, .

Reason for what? lol. Documents? You get documents for stuff that exists... I'm not talking about ED's requirements for documents. I'm talking about ED's requirements to have a least some working items that they include in their products.

Edited December 20, 2010 by RIPTIDE

[GGTharos]

... military/industry contracts? ;)

[FLANKERATOR]

that weapon, if it exists, would be most likelly a nightmare for all fighters built mainly upon radar and RCS performance.

It seems there is another similar variant under developpment...the R77P, but once again that has not been confirmed yet...lets see...

[EtherealN]

Flankerator, no, it wouldn't be.

 

It might look like it might be dangerous, but modern fighters aren't using STT much anymore, and they frequency-hop like mofos. That's not so bad for a stationary target, but a target that's moving at mach 2 in three dimensions... Yeah... ;)

 

Oh, and R-77 is dead.