good plane to start on?

[HokumPilot]

Hey everyone I just joined the forum tonight since i just got FC2 installed and i had a couple questions. First i was wondering which aircraft would be good for getting started in for online play, i figured it would be a good idea to get familiar with each aircraft offline one at a time. Im not sure how the planes balance but im assuming they are pretty much equal when using tactics tailored to their performance traits. The 29 has my interest:smilewink:

 

The other question i had was how well the planes' in game performance and characteristics match the real things, or should i expect some irregularities ex. does the f 15 have superior avionics or can the mig outrun and outclimb others?

 

If anyone is wondering I also pay black shark (one of the best sims ive ever played) and Il2 and i am looking forward to mixing it up with you guys online.

[mig29]

People say that F-15 has an edge over the others in FC2. Also the next aircraft in DCS series will be a "fixed wing US aircraft" so investing your time on American flight system and avionics would benefit you in the near future.

[RIPTIDE]

Hey everyone I just joined the forum tonight since i just got FC2 installed and i had a couple questions. First i was wondering which aircraft would be good for getting started in for online play, i figured it would be a good idea to get familiar with each aircraft offline one at a time. Im not sure how the planes balance but im assuming they are pretty much equal when using tactics tailored to their performance traits. The 29 has my interest:smilewink:

 

The other question i had was how well the planes' in game performance and characteristics match the real things, or should i expect some irregularities ex. does the f 15 have superior avionics or can the mig outrun and outclimb others?

 

If anyone is wondering I also pay black shark (one of the best sims ive ever played) and Il2 and i am looking forward to mixing it up with you guys online.

The Su-25A. It's got the Advanced flight model and takes more attention. Fly a fighter also. Any of them. But the 25A is a must, to sharpen your stick. :thumbup:

[HokumPilot]

Thanks for the info guys. I heard the 25 has a different flight model ill have to give it a try. I thought basic flight on the f 15 and mig 29 i was messing around with seemed a bit more simple. Im pretty pumped for this game because of all the aircraft and the avionics look very intense but it will be awesome when there is a dcs module for all these aircraft :)

[Boberro]

Good plane to learn is Su-25A and T.

Fighters don't differ from each other too much. Basic differences are visible but if you really think there are many of them between F-15's radar and MiG-29 one you'll be disappointed. It is mostly skin change. However it gives a lot of enjoy no doubt!

[Napa]

Run the training for all aircrafts first, read the manual, play the single missions and then the campaigns for ALL aircraft. Hopefully that'll tire you out enough and you'll join us in DCS Warthog :D :P

[HokumPilot]

my whole reasoning for fc2 was to venture into some air to air. black shark covers my tank busting needs

[FLANKERATOR]

BVR:

Best fighter in FC2 is the F-15, you will see first, shoot first most of the time and still defend safely after pitbull...TWS mode is a real advantage and compensate the lack of IRST.

 

Su-27/33 you will see first, shoot first but you have to maintain lock until impact if seeking the kill, making defense against incoming missile very risky... very useful IRST system for stealthy kills ( no warning).

 

Mig-29S has weaker radar, you will see last, shoot last, but you can defend with more freedom after pitbull, exiting the fight is always possible as it has the best acceleration to high mach number, less fuel than other fighters but consumption is very low above 7km (supercruise capability on Winchester RTB's).

 

WVR (Dogfight)

 

Here it depends on your personal taste (energy vs angles).

 

F-15/Mig-29 are more suited for fast energy tactics while the Su-27 is better in slower turning fights. the Su and the Mig are deadly in close encounters using their helmet targeting system/off boresight R-73 combination to get the 1st lock first shot.

 

Welcome to FC2 air to air arena, am sure you will enjoy it.

Edited April 9, 2011 by FLANKERATOR

[HokumPilot]

thanks for the great info man thats what i was looking for. im coming along slowly but once i get decent with a couple planes ill hop online. the biggest gap in my knowledge really is bvr tactics which is what im trying to practice

[revalence]

Ahh! It's very good that you have joined the FC2 community! It's an awesome place for sure.

 

My recommendations:

Start on the Su-25! A must! The advanced flight model and (kinda) low performance will let you appreciate the high performance fighters in here.

 

Choose between the Su-33 or the F-15. If you can operate the Su-33 fairly well, you can do the Su-27. The F-15 has advanced avionics and good maneuverability, but isn't good for close in dogfights against the 27. Plus, if you can fly the 27,33, the 29 is extremely easy.

 

The A-10 is very enjoyable also, w/ a huge payload.

 

Happy Flying!

Cheers!

[HokumPilot]

thanks for all the info guys its been a big help :smilewink:

[GGTharos]

The F-15 has advanced avionics and good maneuverability, but isn't good for close in dogfights against the 27!

 

Sure it is, it's just not something you want to do; depends who's game you'll choose to play, and if you choose the flanker's game you'll lose.

 

It's like saying the flanker is helpless in BVR against the F-15. That's certainly not true, but it is disadvantaged.

[GGTharos]

Choose the plane you like most. It doesn't matter why you like it; just pick one ;)

 

From there on, educate yourself about its abilities and how they compare with those of other aircraft. Ask people for tactics advice pertaining your plane vs plane Y. Search these forums too, plenty has been written already.

 

thanks for all the info guys its been a big help :smilewink:

[revalence]

Sure it is, it's just not something you want to do; depends who's game you'll choose to play, and if you choose the flanker's game you'll lose.

 

It's like saying the flanker is helpless in BVR against the F-15. That's certainly not true, but it is disadvantaged.

 

Haha right GGTharos! :)

[Cali]

Choose the plane you like most. It doesn't matter why you like it; just pick one ;)

 

From there on, educate yourself about its abilities and how they compare with those of other aircraft. Ask people for tactics advice pertaining your plane vs plane Y. Search these forums too, plenty has been written already.

 

 

This is the best advice here. If you know your jets strenghts and weaknessess you'll be able to kill anything out there. It also helps to know the other jets strenghts and weaknessess also.

[HokumPilot]

Ive started getting used to all of the planes, and the 29 seems to be the most fun for me to fly. GG since you seem to be the f 15 expert how would you go about closing in on one in a mig? I assume you would want to be low and at an angle other than head on but do you jam? Do you want to send a 77 or keep your radar off and go for infared? Radar seems much easier to find and lock targets i have a heck of a time getting an infared find with tags off. Coming from Il2 this is all new to me. :helpsmilie: Thanks again guys

[HokumPilot]

This all assuming im not already locked and having 120s coming at me

[Cali]

There are a few ways to approach this. Fly head on high, med or low, once you are about 20-25 miles from the 15, go into the notch. You can tell you have notched him once you dont get a warning on your RWR anymore. You can keep flying the notch and turn back in after a predetermined time. That way if you have a TWS 120 inbound you can get away from it. Keep doing this until you feel you are close to the F-15, then you can try to pick him up with your radar or EOS. Another thing about the 29, is that it's radar is the weakest in the game. The F-15 will be able to pick you up way before you pick him up. You can use your jammer, but that could be bad, especially if there are multi friendlies and bandits in the area.

 

It takes practices and testing to see what works. A lot of people like to spam missiles, but a well timed shot works better then firing 3-4 missiles and the bandit making you waste all of them. I do this to 27's and 33's all the time. let them fire first and make them waste it by beaming them or other moves. Once I get within a certain distance, turn in and fire a 120 and it'll be tracking by it's own, while if they fire they have to hold lock. Those are a few things I use when I fly the F-15 or Russian birds.

 

Good thing about the 29, is that's it's small and hard to see compared to the other jets. But you have to be easy on the afterburner and missiles since you are limited on both. Hope that helps you some, practice and practice some more. You are gonna die a lot, but you'll get the hang of it.

[Cali]

This all assuming im not already locked and having 120s coming at me

 

 

If you are going up against a F-15, just act like you have a 120 inbound. Expect a shot fired from 20-30 miles away, especially if the bandit is high. Shots fired from that far are easy to dodge if you do things right.

[FLANKERATOR]

Ive started getting used to all of the planes, and the 29 seems to be the most fun for me to fly. GG since you seem to be the f 15 expert how would you go about closing in on one in a mig? I assume you would want to be low and at an angle other than head on but do you jam? Do you want to send a 77 or keep your radar off and go for infared? Radar seems much easier to find and lock targets i have a heck of a time getting an infared find with tags off. Coming from Il2 this is all new to me. :helpsmilie: Thanks again guys

 

This is my mig-29S combat guide for a new guy flying online in FC2:

 

- take a look at you base SAMs before taking off, if they are firing a bandit may be nearby! check datalink if provided, read MP chat...

 

- open radar just after taking off and start scanning in ILV mode following a pyramidal pattern (go left, center and right in azimuth at each antenna elevation) while climbing gradually above 7k (stay below 8k to avoid contrail), maintain true airspeed (displayed in BVR mode) between 850 and 1000km/h. the heavier the faster you need to be.

 

- stay ECM off! dont jam, it's a bad idea especially in FC2 and even more in a 29S (jamming will just screw up your SPO and jeopardize your SA, F-15 will anyways get a burn-trough at a very safe distance so it's completely useless and suicidal)

 

- keep scanning actively until you get a bandit contact. now few scenarios:

 

1- if the bandit is not spiking you, don't lock him up! check his closure on the radar and let him get closer, select 64 scale in mfd and wait until he enters the bottom half of the HUD (around 20km), start crancking wait few more seconds , loch him up at he's entering 1st quarter of the HUD from the bottom, fire 2 R-77's at 1 sec gap, wait 3 sec for pitbull, and then go pumping buster (no afterburner!) , chaffing and flaring gently.

Do not stay hot to watch the splash :)

This is a dream scenario that will happen once a year :D

 

2- now meanwhile, if while stalking your prey, your get spiked by your target, lock him up, check his altitude, the surprise attack has failed and goal is to take the best PK shot WHILE staying out of his 120's NEZ. little guideline using your SPO:

Bandit is:

-between 5 and 7k : shoot a 1 or 2 bars, defend at 1 bar.

-between 8 and 12k: shoot at 2 or 3 bars, defend at 2 bars.

-between12 and 13k: shoot at 3 bars and defend at starting 2 bars.

-above 13k: shoot at starting 4 bars and defend at 3 bars.

 

Remember each bar in the SPO is around 10k for a fighter's radar and 1k for a missile's radar.

Don't keep tracking a bandit too long, especially if he's out of your 64 mfd, keep scanning actively with the radar and revert back on him when he's closer. Lock to shoot only, avoid TWS mode in the mig, stay in RWS mode and keep your TD box manually close to the contact.

 

Practise online, use tacview (even if it's a pain in the a$$) and HAVE FUN!

[Rhen]

Ive started getting used to all of the planes, and the 29 seems to be the most fun for me to fly. GG since you seem to be the f 15 expert how would you go about closing in on one in a mig? I assume you would want to be low and at an angle other than head on but do you jam? Do you want to send a 77 or keep your radar off and go for infared? Radar seems much easier to find and lock targets i have a heck of a time getting an infared find with tags off. Coming from Il2 this is all new to me. :helpsmilie: Thanks again guys

 

As an F-15 pilot... (LOL!) I would want to come at you from high altitude as a 2-ship, minimum. Air combat is a team sport, after all. We would perform a basic pincer with altitude separation, push it up to the mach, and fire (this will add speed to my Slammer [AIM-120] in the next iteration, but not in LOFC2, but it's a good tactic to keep performing). This would be accomplished just inside RMAX, and in TWS so you don't get a lock warning. Depending upon who you decide to prosecute, you might get hit by the incoming slammer of the other aircraft, depending upon aspect, and your reaction. At this point the Eagle who's targeted by you will initiate an F-pole maneuver (a maneuver to decrease closure and aspect while remaining tied [radar's still tied to your aircraft], called F-pole because it maximizes the distance between us when the missile hits you), while the other Eagle closes with you to an optimum distance for a second slammer shot, medium aspect, and coming from high altitude down on you. Fox3 (another Slammer shot) and F-pole. Meanwhile you're probably picking up the missile warning and possibly turning into this Eagle. The Eagle you first targeted then turns hot (points his nose at you) and fires if not defensive. This sets up a grinder from two separate directions. Very hard to counter, especially single ship.

 

If talking 1v1, I would still come at you high and fast, preferably off axis - not directly at you. I'd fire just inside RMAX and continue hot. Depending upon your altitude, and our closure, I'd begin an F-pole maneuver (descending turn while keeping you on my radar), while slowing my closure, and attempting to flank or turn to beam. If you fire, I can make the decision to continue with my F-pole maneuver or notch, or bugout. Otherwise I'd continue and fire a second shot keeping you defensive until the merge. If you get a shot off at me, my concern is you R-77.

 

Your best bet is to stay low, use terrain masking and EOS to come in outside the Eagle's radar gimbal limits. Cali gives good advice, use your small size and EOS and helmet mounted sight - those are your strengths. If the Eagle Driver is smart he/she won't just scan at a set altitude but move the scan elevation around to ensure someone like you doesn't sneak under or behind to knife him/her in the back. Once you're under the Eagle's radar coverage, fire in EOS. If you get to the merge, you have the advantage in size since you're smaller and harder to see. You need to make a quick kill using angles. Schlem (use your R-73 and helmet sight) to make your kill or close to the Eagle's rear quarter and make the guns kill. Make it quick, though, because you have little fuel to remain anchored. Always assume the guy you're fighting has a wingman somewhere you don't see.

 

Really, your best bet is to find someone who challenges you to fly with. Practice with each other until you get good, then take it to the servers. That way you have a built in wingman online.

[ZQuickSilverZ]

my whole reasoning for fc2 was to venture into some air to air. black shark covers my tank busting needs

 

I find this opinion a little odd. Ground pounding in a helicopter and ground pounding in a fixed wing are totally different. The delivery is different and the tactics are different. Ground pound in an Su25t then ground pound in the Ka-50 (since these are the 2 most comparable and share shkval, vickers, and rockets) and tell me you had a similar experience.

[HokumPilot]

I find this opinion a little odd. Ground pounding in a helicopter and ground pounding in a fixed wing are totally different. The delivery is different and the tactics are different. Ground pound in an Su25t then ground pound in the Ka-50 (since these are the 2 most comparable and share shkval, vickers, and rockets) and tell me you had a similar experience.

 

Its pretty obvious it would be a different experience but its still the same target. Whats odd about wanting to shoot down another plane? I played plenty of black shark and lock on made the most sense for a new experience. Ill get a-10 eventually but i figured lock on would make the most sense to get first because it differed the most and has multiple platforms to deliver destruction :thumbup: BVR combat especially is something i had no clue about and wanted to dive into and learn.

[ZQuickSilverZ]

It's not odd to want to shoot down other aircraft. I am glad you feel that Lock On FC2 has something to offer you. When you said that the Ka-50 met your tank busting needs what I read into that (I guess innaccuratetly) is that A-10A, A-10C, Su25, and Su25t would be "more of the same".