CCIP consent options?

[Ghanja]

I was trying to figure out the use and benefits of the CCIP consent options (OFF, 3/9, 5 MIL) while using using cluster bombs and regular unguided bombs. I also watched a video where CBUs where used with 5 MIL but did not quite get the message why it was done.

When should I use what what's the difference between these options? Reading the manual things got a little bit better but I am still clueless ... :noexpression:

[Heli Shed]

I was trying to figure out the use and benefits of the CCIP consent options (OFF, 3/9, 5 MIL) while using using cluster bombs and regular unguided bombs. I also watched a video where CBUs where used with 5 MIL but did not quite get the message why it was done.

When should I use what what's the difference between these options? Reading the manual things got a little bit better but I am still clueless ... :noexpression:

 

Firstly, go take a look at my IVS on youtube and 'listen' to the opening brief which summarises using the 'why we do what we do BECAUSE of.................' method.

 

Secondly, understand that the 5 mill method is best used (ccip) on a low level engagement using appropriate munitions, for example, Mk82 airs or even Cluster munitions set at the the right HOF. The 5 mill method enables us to have an almost level attitude (up to -5mil) before weapons release.

[Ghanja]

Thanks Tyger - I think I have the 5 MIL figured out now ... :thumbup:

[zamboni]

Firstly, go take a look at my IVS on youtube and 'listen' to the opening brief which summarises using the 'why we do what we do BECAUSE of.................' method.

 

Secondly, understand that the 5 mill method is best used (ccip) on a low level engagement using appropriate munitions, for example, Mk82 airs or even Cluster munitions set at the the right HOF. The 5 mill method enables us to have an almost level attitude (up to -5mil) before weapons release.

 

Tyger, Watched the video you are talking about, and I agree with the commenter on the thread. Although you switched the setting to 5 mil, you actually dropped the bombs in CCIP mode (It was in CCIP delivery because the pipper was solid when you pickled).

 

From the way I understand it will go into the 5mil mode if the actual impact point is below the hud, the reticle will be dashed. Fly the pipper over the target, hold weapons release, Pipper/PBIL will turn solid and then you have to fly the solution cue over the pipper.

 

But because of you low height and speed, the pipper was within the HUD FOV and was acting in CCIP mode. In those two bomb runs in the video it wouldn't matter if you had it in straight CCIP or in 5 mil consent move because it was acting as a CCIP release (the bombs came off the rail as soon as you hit the release button).

 

EDIT:

What you should have done with that video was load out 4 MK82-Airs and 4 CBU-87s.

For that first run on the convoy, select the MK82Airs and the release point would have been below the HUD and you would have actually used the 5 mil consent to release mode. On that second run you switch to the 87s and do the same thing you did just to show that even though you selected 5 mil mode, you can still do a CCIP release if the pipper is solid and within the FOV of the HUD.

Edited April 21, 2011 by zamboni

[zamboni]

I was trying to figure out the use and benefits of the CCIP consent options (OFF, 3/9, 5 MIL) while using using cluster bombs and regular unguided bombs. I also watched a video where CBUs where used with 5 MIL but did not quite get the message why it was done.

When should I use what what's the difference between these options? Reading the manual things got a little bit better but I am still clueless ... :noexpression:

 

I guess I should also answer the opening post's question :)

 

Why the 3/9 and 5 mil modes?

 

Lets say that you have some AAA in the target area. With straight CCIP mode You will have to dive in on the target and then place the pipper over the target. Weapons will be released as soon as you pickle. If you are low, you may not be able to break off and climb out of the area before the AAA starts to shoot at you.

 

With the 3/9 mode or the 5 mil mode, you can start out higher and not use as steep a dive angle. Go into a shallow dive, place the pipper over the target and hold the release button. Continue that shallow dive, or you can pull up level (while still holding the release button) and then fly the release cue over the pipper. It can keep you a bit higher and out of range of AAA at the target site.

 

In addition, if you are loaded out with high drag bombs like the MK82-airs, you can fly low and fast over the target area. In this situation, the normal CCIP pipper would be below the hud. In 3/9 or 5 mil consent mode, although the real CCIP pipper would be below the hud, you can designate on the spot you want to hit, hold the button and then fly the solution cue over the pipper. Bombs will release when the cue goes over the pipper. You can remain level and fast and then be immediately ready for an immediate break/climb out of the danger area.

[Frederf]

Spectacular description zamboni. Visual acquisition, CCRP-like delivery freedom.

[Heli Shed]

Tyger, Watched the video you are talking about, and I agree with the commenter on the thread. Although you switched the setting to 5 mil, you actually dropped the bombs in CCIP mode (It was in CCIP delivery because the pipper was solid when you pickled).

 

From the way I understand it will go into the 5mil mode if the actual impact point is below the hud, the reticle will be dashed. Fly the pipper over the target, hold weapons release, Pipper/PBIL will turn solid and then you have to fly the solution cue over the pipper.

 

But because of you low height and speed, the pipper was within the HUD FOV and was acting in CCIP mode. In those two bomb runs in the video it wouldn't matter if you had it in straight CCIP or in 5 mil consent move because it was acting as a CCIP release (the bombs came off the rail as soon as you hit the release button).

 

EDIT:

What you should have done with that video was load out 4 MK82-Airs and 4 CBU-87s.

For that first run on the convoy, select the MK82Airs and the release point would have been below the HUD and you would have actually used the 5 mil consent to release mode. On that second run you switch to the 87s and do the same thing you did just to show that even though you selected 5 mil mode, you can still do a CCIP release if the pipper is solid and within the FOV of the HUD.

 

You are missing the point.

 

5 mill allows you to utilise the method of delivery as a 'consent to release' function, at almost level flight using mk82 airs or cluster munitions, using the CCIP method.

 

That was the whole point of the video, to explore the fact that CCIP mode is NOT just limited to Manual Release..

 

Think outside the box people, Warfare is not linear or symetrical.

 

'T'

[Heli Shed]

What you should have done with that video was load out 4 MK82-Airs and 4 CBU-87s.

For that first run on the convoy, select the MK82Airs and the release point would have been below the HUD and you would have actually used the 5 mil consent to release mode. On that second run you switch to the 87s and do the same thing you did just to show that even though you selected 5 mil mode, you can still do a CCIP release if the pipper is solid and within the FOV of the HUD.

 

And, i very much look forward to your own video series.

 

//waiting

[SmokeyTheLung]

I guess I should also answer the opening post's question :)

 

Why the 3/9 and 5 mil modes?

 

Lets say that you have some AAA in the target area. With straight CCIP mode You will have to dive in on the target and then place the pipper over the target. Weapons will be released as soon as you pickle. If you are low, you may not be able to break off and climb out of the area before the AAA starts to shoot at you.

 

With the 3/9 mode or the 5 mil mode, you can start out higher and not use as steep a dive angle. Go into a shallow dive, place the pipper over the target and hold the release button. Continue that shallow dive, or you can pull up level (while still holding the release button) and then fly the release cue over the pipper. It can keep you a bit higher and out of range of AAA at the target site.

 

In addition, if you are loaded out with high drag bombs like the MK82-airs, you can fly low and fast over the target area. In this situation, the normal CCIP pipper would be below the hud. In 3/9 or 5 mil consent mode, although the real CCIP pipper would be below the hud, you can designate on the spot you want to hit, hold the button and then fly the solution cue over the pipper. Bombs will release when the cue goes over the pipper. You can remain level and fast and then be immediately ready for an immediate break/climb out of the danger area.

 

Thank you for that explanation. I hadn't considered that I could "fly the release cue over the pipper" it has improved my deliveries immensely (I'd previously been holding my dive and waiting for consent to release:doh:)

[mikey]

And, i very much look forward to your own video series.

 

//waiting

Nice

 

:huh:

[Heli Shed]

Nice

 

:huh:

 

I'm serious TBH mate.

 

The sceptics always seem to come out after the 'first round is fired'.

He seems to know what he is on about, and clearly thinks that i`m completely wrong, so fairplay i say. PIP..................Proof Is in the Pudding.

 

Like i said, i look forward to his own IVS that will offer greater clarity than my own without compromising the 50% 'fun' factor that NONE of us should compromise. High Fidelity Sim or not, we do this for fun. So my advice to 'Z' when he spends hours and hours making one high quality vid (i speak for experience), is to leave the semantics at the door, leave the complex explanations out of it and tell people what they 'want to know, and how to do it'

 

GL 'Z', seriously.

 

'T'

[Kankkis]

Firstly, go take a look at my IVS on youtube and 'listen' to the opening brief which summarises using the 'why we do what we do BECAUSE of.................' method.

 

Secondly, understand that the 5 mill method is best used (ccip) on a low level engagement using appropriate munitions, for example, Mk82 airs or even Cluster munitions set at the the right HOF. The 5 mill method enables us to have an almost level attitude (up to -5mil) before weapons release.

 

Where is that video, wanna see it:smilewink:

[Heli Shed]

Where is that video, wanna see it:smilewink:

 

[Kankkis]

Thanks, really great video

[Heli Shed]

Thanks, really great video

 

apparently not....................

 

;-)

[BlueRidgeDx]

Tyger,

 

The video clearly shows a MANUAL release. The Consent Release option was never used, and with a solid PBIL, you had a hot pickle (STS).

 

In order to actually use the 5 mil CR, you need to be at higher altitude, or use a retarded weapon. The calculated sight depression needs to be off the bottom of the HUD, and then you will see the dashed PBIL and a dashed reticle clamped to the outside edge of the HUD FOV.

 

Place the pipper over the DMPI, and press and hold the pickle button to "designate" the target. The symbology will then change to the solid post-designate consent release indications (which looks just like CCRP), with an ASL and Solution Cue. Place the PBRL on the Solution Cue, and supply sufficient G to cause the solution cue to descend the PBRL toward the pipper.

 

In 5 mil, the pipper must be with 5 mils of the Solution Cue (meaning the pipper has to pass inside the small circle), and pass the 3/9 line or the bombs won't come off.

 

In 3/9 mode, the bombs will come off as the pipper passes the 3/9 line of the Solution Cue, regardless of azimuth error. In this case, the 3/9 line is parallel to the bottom edge of the HUD glass.

[Heli Shed]

Tyger,

 

The video clearly shows a MANUAL release. The Consent Release option was never used, and with a solid PBIL, you had a hot pickle (STS).

 

In order to actually use the 5 mil CR, you need to be at higher altitude, or use a retarded weapon. The calculated sight depression needs to be off the bottom of the HUD, and then you will see the dashed PBIL and a dashed reticle clamped to the outside edge of the HUD FOV.

 

Place the pipper over the DMPI, and press and hold the pickle button to "designate" the target. The symbology will then change to the solid post-designate consent release indications (which looks just like CCRP), with an ASL and Solution Cue. Place the PBRL on the Solution Cue, and supply sufficient G to cause the solution cue to descend the PBRL toward the pipper.

 

In 5 mil, the pipper must be with 5 mils of the Solution Cue (meaning the pipper has to pass inside the small circle), and pass the 3/9 line or the bombs won't come off.

 

In 3/9 mode, the bombs will come off as the pipper passes the 3/9 line of the Solution Cue, regardless of azimuth error. In this case, the 3/9 line is parallel to the bottom edge of the HUD glass.

 

6 Minutes 45 seconds CLEARLY shows that i am not in Manual release mode after selecting 5 mill as an option in the IFCC.

 

I'd like to see you do a level drop in CCIP Manual Release, Blue.

 

look forward to the track, lets test baby!

 

'T'

 

PS: dont forget this was Beta 2 BTW, but thanks for the comments all. I will be redoing the IVS inline with CR. thanks.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Tyger

[KaspeR32]

Gosh, so defensive Tyger. I think they're just trying to point out what the 5 mil option is actually used for. I for one, didn't really understand how it worked from your video (since it wasn't really used), but with the other explanations, I get it.

 

 

This sums up for me why 5 mil is pretty awesome. v

 

Spectacular description zamboni. Visual acquisition, CCRP-like delivery freedom.

 

I have watched a few of your videos though Tyger and I do enjoy them. Keep it up ;)

[BlueRidgeDx]

6 Minutes 45 seconds CLEARLY shows that i am not in Manual release mode after selecting 5 mill as an option in the IFCC.

 

Setting the IFFCC Consent Release option to 5 mil doesn't guarantee that you're going to use it. The CR symbology is only displayed when the ballistic solution is off the bottom of the HUD.

 

As long as you fly fast enough, dive steeply enough, or a combination of the two, to prevent the pipper from falling off the bottom of the HUD, you will get normal CCIP symbology and a Manual release.

 

Manual release means that the bombs come off as soon as you press the pickle button.

 

If you're slow, shallow, or a combination of the two, with 5 mil or 3/9 selected, you will get the indications described in my previous post, and you will get a Consent Release.

 

Consent Release means that the bombs come off whenever the IFFCC decides you've met the delivery parameters. You must HOLD the pickle button in order to give IFFCC consent to release the bombs.

 

I'd like to see you do a level drop in CCIP Manual Release, Blue.

 

Your wish is my command.

 

In the attached track, I make three passes on a random airfield target using Mk-82 LDGP's.

 

Pass one is a low, fast, level delivery using standard CCIP.

 

Pass two is a low, fast, level delivery using CCIP 5 mil CR. Note that the symbology and release characteristics are identical to pass one.

 

Pass three is a slow, dive bomb pass using CCIP 5 mil CR. Note the dashed PBIL and Pipper clamped at the bottom of the HUD. Note that upon pressing the pickle button, the HUD changes to Post-Designate CCIP mode. Finally, note that I manually fly the Pipper through the Solution Cue while holding the pickle button down, satisfying the 5 mil release critera and allowing IFFCC to release the bombs.

 

look forward to the track, lets test baby!

 

:pilotfly:

CCIP CR Demo.trk

Edited April 22, 2011 by BlueRidgeDx

[Heli Shed]

Setting the IFFCC Consent Release option to 5 mil doesn't guarantee that you're going to use it. The CR symbology is only displayed when the ballistic solution is off the bottom of the HUD.

 

As long as you fly fast enough, dive steeply enough, or a combination of the two, to prevent the pipper from falling off the bottom of the HUD, you will get normal CCIP symbology and a Manual release.

 

Manual release means that the bombs come off as soon as you press the pickle button.

 

If you're slow, shallow, or a combination of the two, with 5 mil or 3/9 selected, you will get the indications described in my previous post, and you will get a Consent Release.

 

Consent Release means that the bombs come off whenever the IFFCC decides you've met the delivery parameters. You must HOLD the pickle button in order to give IFFCC consent to release the bombs.

 

 

 

Your wish is my command.

 

In the attached track, I make three passes on a random airfield target using Mk-82 LDGP's.

 

Pass one is a low, fast, level delivery using standard CCIP.

 

Pass two is a low, fast, level delivery using CCIP 5 mil CR. Note that the symbology and release characteristics are identical to pass one.

 

Pass three is a slow, dive bomb pass using CCIP 5 mil CR. Note the dashed PBIL and Pipper clamped at the bottom of the HUD. Note that upon pressing the pickle button, the HUD changes to Post-Designate CCIP mode. Finally, note that I manually fly the Pipper through the Solution Cue while holding the pickle button down, satisfying the 5 mil release critera and allowing IFFCC to release the bombs.

 

 

 

:pilotfly:

 

thanks man, good stuff.

 

Regards

 

'T'

[Heli Shed]

Gosh, so defensive Tyger. I think they're just trying to point out what the 5 mil option is actually used for. I for one, didn't really understand how it worked from your video (since it wasn't really used), but with the other explanations, I get it.

 

 

This sums up for me why 5 mil is pretty awesome. v

 

 

 

I have watched a few of your videos though Tyger and I do enjoy them. Keep it up ;)

 

Thanks man, it's been a long one today.

[zamboni]

Tyger,

 

I'm never one to start or get into a pi**ing match over something. For the most part when it comes to specifics in flight sims I do not feel like I can comment from a position of authority. But after reading the manual and I believe that I have come to grips with the theory behind and implementation of the 3/9 and 5 mil release modes.

 

I read your original reply, and then watched the video. When watching the video, I was thinking....."that bombing run is not a 5mil consent to release run...it was just a straight CCIP manual release while the 5 mil consent to release mode was active." After watching the video I saw the youtube comment which stated what I was thinking.

 

But seeing it was an ED Tester that is making a video for his fighter wing, I better have my ducks in a row before commenting. Went back and checked the manual again on the release modes and when I posted, I laid out that I thought that the video was not showing a 5mil consent to release, and tried to explain why I thought it was incorrect.

 

If you had not changed the setting to 5 mil and made the same exact bombing run, you would have gotten the same exact result because the impact point was within the HUD FOV. The 5mil consent to release is only activated when the computed impact point is outside the HUD FOV (the pipper and impact line will be dashed).

 

If the video did actually show a 5 mil consent to release bomb release I would not have commented. Because it did not show one, I felt that the opening poster should be aware, and that you should be aware so the instructional video could be changed to show what you were describing at the beginning of the video.

[Heli Shed]

Tyger,

 

I'm never one to start or get into a pi**ing match over something. For the most part when it comes to specifics in flight sims I do not feel like I can comment from a position of authority. But after reading the manual and I believe that I have come to grips with the theory behind and implementation of the 3/9 and 5 mil release modes.

 

I read your original reply, and then watched the video. When watching the video, I was thinking....."that bombing run is not a 5mil consent to release run...it was just a straight CCIP manual release while the 5 mil consent to release mode was active." After watching the video I saw the youtube comment which stated what I was thinking.

 

But seeing it was an ED Tester that is making a video for his fighter wing, I better have my ducks in a row before commenting. Went back and checked the manual again on the release modes and when I posted, I laid out that I thought that the video was not showing a 5mil consent to release, and tried to explain why I thought it was incorrect.

 

If you had not changed the setting to 5 mil and made the same exact bombing run, you would have gotten the same exact result because the impact point was within the HUD FOV. The 5mil consent to release is only activated when the computed impact point is outside the HUD FOV (the pipper and impact line will be dashed).

 

If the video did actually show a 5 mil consent to release bomb release I would not have commented. Because it did not show one, I felt that the opening poster should be aware, and that you should be aware so the instructional video could be changed to show what you were describing at the beginning of the video.

 

The videos will be re-done on the CR (Candidate Release) model.

 

Loking through my notes, i am not to blame, neither are you, nor blueridge, infact no-one is. These videos were made using Beta 2 and at the time the 5 mil wasn't working correctly (graphically) although the chars- were.

 

Blueridge has bought about a fine example of clearing up a grey area by his track, i thank him on behalf of the community.

 

Regards

 

'T'

 

PS: so no IVS of your own then?..................................relax, i`m joking. - fly safe.

[GregP]

The DCS Wiki does a pretty nice job of explaining CCIP/CR modes and at least for me, clears up a bit of the ambiguity in the manual.

[NhiTrac]

A blast from the past!

 

I've got the basics of CCRP down and can deliver guided munition 10/10 times but was struggling and quite frustrated with CCIP delivery...

 

... Until google brought me to this thread. The informative debate, a page or two back has cleared it up for me and now I can release 9/10 times though need to massively focus on my accuracy.

 

Anyway, saw another thread with same query so no doubt this can help others :)

Edited April 8, 2013 by NhiTrac