AAR mission and 1.1.0.8

[ScorpionFalcon]

This particular AAR mission worked in 1.1.0.7. Just tried it with .8, and I can't find the tanker or contact it! I wonder if the version changed bonked the mission? Can someone try it out and verify that it's not working with them as well? Thanks.

AAR Refueling Practice.miz

[AfkMan]

everything works fine... i found him easy....

Set TCN to 10Y in flight...

 

Make 2 waypoints for a tanker. On 1st set the orbit race-track. Andt that's all.

 

TCN X for a tanker in editor means Y in flight.

[lobo]

everything works fine... i found him easy....

Set TCN to 10Y in flight...

 

TCN X for a tanker in editor means Y in flight.

 

That is strange... That is my mission and I am quite sure it is channel 10X in the editor and 10X in the aircraft... That is how it worked in .7 although I have not tried it in .8. Will give it a look tomorrow. No access today to pc. It should be x or y not x=y...

[ScorpionFalcon]

I haven't tried 10Y, but was using 10X (which worked before in 1.1.0.7). Thanks for taking a look for me!

[ScorpionFalcon]

Thanks for your help too AfkMan!

[AfkMan]

ED said once - all TCN X for ground, all TCN Y to aircrafts. But they havn't fixed it in ME. So X=Y if it's and aircraft=)

 

a plus from you=)

 

Becides, it was working in .7 that way....

[molyporph]

Yes the TCN for tankers is Y even if mission editor or briefing tells you X. Found out by chance doing some refueling missions posted in this forum.

 

But I never get the tankers to answer my calls on VHF. So no refueling yet :-(

[AfkMan]

what about freqs? opening the refueling gates? easy radio comms?

[molyporph]

Hi AfkMan thanks for your reply.

The freqs I use are set on the "Radio 1 VHF AM":

texaco=150

arcsomething=140

 

I use the Warthog HOTAS Throttle Mike Switch Forward to call the Tankers

The refueling port is set to "open".

I play on full simulation settings for everything.

I am flying so that the inner tanker engines are "touching" my HUD frame already.

 

I am not at home right now, but now I remember a thing which I need to check when back in the game:

Before taking off and locating and contacting the tankers, I changed my loadout on the ground using the intercom panel and the HotMike Button pushed. I forgot to set it back. May this cause failing VHF AM communications?

 

*** EDIT ****

 

OK, just read WarriorX´s Radio Tutorial. Great Read! Its on the last slide. The Intercom Ground Crew thing most probably caused my problem. Need to set it back to VHF. And push the radio buttons slowly. I am a speed-clicker :-) So I will try this again and hope I can suck up some Jetfuel :-D

Edited June 7, 2011 by molyporph
Just found it out probably

[AfkMan]

Please try and tell me if it caused this issue

[ScorpionFalcon]

Thanks everyone, I finally got it working. I finally got my first full refuel today! I was wondering why the heck the tanker RTB'd, and then realized I was topped off. I believe it was 7000lbs? It was exhilirating, since only a few days ago I quit AAR thinking there was no way I would be able to do it. To everyone thinking they can't I can assure you - it IS possible!

[ScorpionFalcon]

Oops I take that back I don't think I was full haha :music_whistling:

[ggerman]

Has anyone else noticed that the tanker gradually reduces speed over the course of refueling?

 

If I go to pre-connect with the tanker at, let's say, 250kt, by the time I have connected and finished the fuel transfer, the tanker has slowed to 180kt. It makes it very difficult to manage speed and stay connected when the tanker is gradually reducing speed. I don't seem to recall this being an issue in previous versions. I should add that this is without any wind, turbulence or other weather interference.

Edited June 8, 2011 by ggerman

[lobo]

I just downloaded the mission and ran it. I find no difference between patch .7 and .8... It runs the same as when I put the mission together.

 

Please confirm that you are selecting:

1) Tacan channel to 10X

2) Tacan mode switch to AA/TR mode

3) Nav mode to Tacan

 

With the above you should get range and bearing info on the HSI to the tanker.

 

FYI When I select 10Y I get bearing but no range. 10X = bearing and range to the tanker as in the mission editor and the briefing.

 

Re the speed. The tanker is maintaining speed. If you look in the F10 view you see him doing 250. Now when you join formation with him you notice you are doing 180. He did not slow down, you are both going the same speed... The F10 view is showing his groundspeed, your HUD is showing you indicated speed. If while flying in formation with the tanker you switch your HUD to GS mode you will see you are doing 250 gs as is he. You are both doing 180 IAS and 250 gs. :)

[andysim]

I cant refuel at all when the tanker wont stop making sharp turns while im connected :(

 

Before the patch the tanker would just fly level untill I finnished but now its turning like a fighter jet.

 

If it was a constant 2 or 3 degree bank it would be ok but no a bank/level/bank/level.

[ScorpionFalcon]

So I tried again hoping to get more fuel than previous attempts. This time I was able to get my fuel to 9000, but then the tanker said "transfer complete" and disconnected. Does this mean I received a full tank? I thought the capacity was closer to 10,000.

[AfkMan]

yep, 4500 for a tank

[ggerman]

Re the speed. The tanker is maintaining speed. If you look in the F10 view you see him doing 250. Now when you join formation with him you notice you are doing 180. He did not slow down, you are both going the same speed... The F10 view is showing his groundspeed, your HUD is showing you indicated speed. If while flying in formation with the tanker you switch your HUD to GS mode you will see you are doing 250 gs as is he. You are both doing 180 IAS and 250 gs. :)

 

I understand the difference between indicated and true airspeed (I'm an IRL pilot).. what I'm saying is that the tanker is definitely slowing down... whether it's the speed indicated on the HUD or the ground speed shown on the info bar, the speed decreases as the refueling progresses... If I replay a track, I can switch to an outside view, look at the info bar and watch the speed steadily decrease during the course of refueling. If I stay in-cockpit and watch the HUD, the speed will decrease over the course of refueling. If the tanker was maintaining speed, then both indications would remain constant throughout. They aren't, though...the tanker definitely decreases speed by around 10-20kt the entire time I'm connected.

[ScorpionFalcon]

I totally agree with this. It seems to go from 180 to 175 at the end of refueling. No wonder it is so darn tough to get a full tank!

[lobo]

I understand the difference between indicated and true airspeed (I'm an IRL pilot).. what I'm saying is that the tanker is definitely slowing down... the tanker definitely decreases speed by around 10-20kt the entire time I'm connected.

 

When creating the mission the tanker AI speed is set by the mission designer as a specific gs, not IAS. I wonder if that has something to do with it... I think you are only able to specify gs.

[ggerman]

When creating the mission the tanker AI speed is set by the mission designer as a specific gs, not IAS. I wonder if that has something to do with it... I think you are only able to specify gs.

 

Yeah.. I think it's only GS you can specify... I tried creating a mission and set the tanker speed to 250kt and it sets the speed to around 178KIAS

 

I still can manage to stay connected, but it requires much more power management and constant trimming/re-trimming when you're gradually slowing down while trying to match your speed to the tanker.

[lobo]

Yeah.. I think it's only GS you can specify... I tried creating a mission and set the tanker speed to 250kt and it sets the speed to around 178KIAS

 

I still can manage to stay connected, but it requires much more power management and constant trimming/re-trimming when you're gradually slowing down while trying to match your speed to the tanker.

 

Reading the GUI manual it is my understanding (as you say) that only gs can be set. This presents a potential problem with the tanker in that if the wind component acting on the tanker changes, the AI tanker pilot will adjust his ias to maintain the gs as specified in the mission editor. It would be nice if you could choose in the ME to set the AI speed as ias or gs at mission designers choice.

 

For the AAR ops with the KC135 an A-10 it is my understanding that normal refueling speed is 220 ias. I found it easier at 180 ias than 220, however I think irl the issue has more to do with the tankers min speed, and maybe I just need to practice more at 220. I am also wondering what normal refueling alt would be for A-10's?

 

I honestly have not seen the tanker speed reduce while connected, however my attention was fixated on doing what it took to maintain my position in relation to the tanker. When I get a chance tomorrow I'll look at it. My irl keeps interfering with my sim flying. ;)

[Snoopy]

Reading the GUI manual it is my understanding (as you say) that only gs can be set. This presents a potential problem with the tanker in that if the wind component acting on the tanker changes, the AI tanker pilot will adjust his ias to maintain the gs as specified in the mission editor. It would be nice if you could choose in the ME to set the AI speed as ias or gs at mission designers choice.

 

For the AAR ops with the KC135 an A-10 it is my understanding that normal refueling speed is 220 ias. I found it easier at 180 ias than 220, however I think irl the issue has more to do with the tankers min speed, and maybe I just need to practice more at 220. I am also wondering what normal refueling alt would be for A-10's?

 

I honestly have not seen the tanker speed reduce while connected, however my attention was fixated on doing what it took to maintain my position in relation to the tanker. When I get a chance tomorrow I'll look at it. My irl keeps interfering with my sim flying. ;)

 

 

You are correct....Per the C-1

 

Airspeeds and Altitudes.

With KC-135 tankers, Air Refueling Airspeed is 220 KCAS at a base planning altitude of 15,000 feet. The tanker gross weight will be the prime consideration when determining the refueling airspeed and altitude. The use of speed brakes on the A-10C is not recommended.

 

I developed this SOP for our V Squadron, most of the info is directly from the -1.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Snoopy
Added attachment

[lobo]

I cant refuel at all when the tanker wont stop making sharp turns while im connected :(

 

Before the patch the tanker would just fly level untill I finnished but now its turning like a fighter jet.

 

If it was a constant 2 or 3 degree bank it would be ok but no a bank/level/bank/level.

 

That sounds like a ME issue? I did a bunch of AAR practice yesterday with patch .8 and the tanker was rock solid not turning at all once established on the refueling track. Was he trying to avoid a mountain? ;)

[Snoopy]

That sounds like a ME issue? I did a bunch of AAR practice yesterday with patch .8 and the tanker was rock solid not turning at all once established on the refueling track. Was he trying to avoid a mountain? ;)

 

FYI...he'll turn on the track in 0.8 but only at the correct times nothing crazy or random like on 0.7.

 

Pics to prove it (not me, I'm not good enough to be connected through the turn yet...)