Difficulties with refueling practice .miz: help appreciated

[Bahger]

I've been trying to put together a simple practice mission in which the player starts far enough away from the tanker that he has to use TACAN to find the tanker and then join to refuel. The fact that I have not yet learned air-to-air refueling makes this more complicated for me. I have had the following difficulties:

 

- I do not get a response from the tanker after I call him on 150 AM, the freq I set him to in the ME. Is there some kind of distance limitation for tanker comms?

 

- What is an appropriate airspeed to command the tanker to maintain at 18,000 ft?

 

- What are the cues for a response from the tanker, i.e. is it required for the player to have performed certain actions, such as weapons SAFE settings, lights, fuel gate open, etc.? I am bafffled by my inability to get the KC to communicate.

 

- Could someone confirm which general and advanced task/waypoint settings the tanker needs in order to perform its function? I might have got this wrong, too.

 

Here is my very imperfect practice mission, with airspeeds that are way too fast.

 

I'm determined to learn tanking by Xmas and would really appreciate assistance.

BI_Refuel.miz

[Speed]

You've got to use the actual mic switch and select the proper radio (150MHz would be the VHF AM radio freq range) if easy radio is off. Put the tankers in a race track or in create your own waypoints for them and use the switch waypoint command to make a custom orbit shape.

 

The first tanker call, "request rejoin" or whatever, can be made from far away, but the second call, "ready precontact" needs to be made right behind him... only a few hundred feet.

 

You need to have your refueling door open to refuel. If you accidentally disconnect, you need to punch the "NWS/Fire Laser/AAR Disc" button before you can refuel again. You'll notice the status lights change just to the right of the HUD.

 

An appropriate airspeed at 18k feet might be about 200 knots. You can go higher or lower... I've seen some people that put tankers in doing 180 knots, and others that had the tanker doing 240 knots (which is probably too fast). Anyway, 200, 210 is probably the norm.

 

While refueling, I like to have my airbrakes slightly extended. This gives me more control authority over the aircraft's speed - especially in the backwards direction :D

 

I'm uploading a small little example mission. It can be flown in single player with one person, or in multiplayer with up to four people.

Speeds AAR Practice.miz

Edited December 8, 2011 by Speed

[Bahger]

Thanks a lot, Speed, much appreciated.

[WildFire]

Download my four missions for refueling, they are exactly what you want. They are in the missions forum, not on the DCS mainsite though.

[Bahger]

Many thanks, Wildfire much appreciated, rep inbound. Are these air-start missions or runway start? Playable only in MP server, right?

[GGTharos]

- What is an appropriate airspeed to command the tanker to maintain at 18,000 ft?

 

Refueling for A-10's is 220IAS, 10000'-15000' (but you could do higher).

 

- Could someone confirm which general and advanced task/waypoint settings the tanker needs in order to perform its function? I might have got this wrong, too.

 

Put the tanker in, then set another WP, set it to Orbit, Racetrack, add another WP - this WP sets direction and length of racetrack.

[WildFire]

Air start, you can always open the ME and set any one of them to player instead of client. I think someone said once you can already use the client spots in SP though.

 

The tanker speeds are way too high and the wind is crazy, now that I can tweak the weather I'll redo them soon and sort all that out. But as far as your uses, just open the editor and take a look its got it all in there.

[Bahger]

Thanks, guys.

 

Be warrned AAR missions made pre-1.1.1.0 do not always play nice in the latest version; there are problems with the sim crashing when the tanker crew clears for contact. And the initial radio response from the tanker to rejoin is missing (but present in text if you have radio subtitles on).

 

Wildfire, you might look at your tanker tracks, I found that the tanker flew too fast, as you point out, but also seemed not to fly long enough straight legs.

 

I am slowly, slowly getting it. I am pretty advanced in every area of the sim but this one and I knew it would be a challenge. It's hard enough just being cleared for contact. Haven't caught the boom yet. It might take a week of practicing for half an hour a day.

[WildFire]

I'll tell you the single best thing you can do for refueling is to put curves in your joystick axis. If you haven't done that you'll find it very hard to refuel. Start with pitch and roll curves of 30 and work your way up. Change them and stick with it for at least a couple days, it will take to get used to the changes.

 

If you already have curves then belay my last, and good luck. Practice, practice, practice.

[GGTharos]

They flying skill required to refuel properly is actually fairly advanced and demanding - specifically, precision formation flight. Not quite like the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds, but something like.

 

Not having these skills is kinda typical for those who don't fly formation :)

 

Of course, it's advanced in only one little regime of pilotage, and there's much more to the whole deal.

 

I am slowly, slowly getting it. I am pretty advanced in every area of the sim but this one and I knew it would be a challenge. It's hard enough just being cleared for contact. Haven't caught the boom yet. It might take a week of practicing for half an hour a day.

[Bahger]

All good points, many thanks. I will experiment with curves in my stick axes (throttle too?) Although I won't customise my settings at the expense of full functionality in any other area of flight. You are quite right Tharos, this is by far the most exacting test of airmanship but it's a legitimate challenge, which is why I want to master it. I have little experience in MP close formation, which makes it tougher still. I know I can get there; it's a matter of forming exacly the right visual image of one a/c's relationship to the other in the sky and holding it there. I think a zoomed-out view will help.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Bahger

[GGTharos]

Yep, you will learn it by practicing it. You are correct about a zoomed out view - lock in your visual cues with the tanker primarily and not the boom. If you stare at the boom, you'll PIO.

[SmokeyTheLung]

It might take a week of practicing for half an hour a day.

 

Indeed, I distinctly remember having something of a eureka moment when learning how to tank. Probably not the kind of advice that can just click without practice, but keep in mind that you should be making slight predictive corrections. As though you were thinking 1 sec into the future :pilotfly: (especially with the throttle) Actually make that 2 secs with the throttle :D

[Bahger]

Ain't that the truth! If you are not doing everything a second or two ahead of time, you are doing it too late. And the absence of radar to give closure rates and relative positions makes this a unique test of flying skill in the Hog. BTW, is there any way to set the tanker's direction of tuen (right or left pattern) in the ME?

[WildFire]

No curve on the throttle I don't think, but its up to you. I doubt it would be useful. In Snoopy's (paulrkiii's is that how its spelled?) guide on aerial refueling there is a picture in there of pre-contact.

 

This picture is extremely useful in showing the relationship of the tanker to you, if you can notice the tanker fits into the view where the engines sit in the curvature of the two canopy bars above your compass and G-meter. That is the ideal position. You keep those engines right in there, and your on the money.

Edited December 9, 2011 by WildFire

[Bahger]

Right! That's the picture. Today's the day to stop chasing the boom! I'm surprised there aren't more hero videos of successful tanking on Youtube. I wonder what percentage of people who own the sim master it?

[WildFire]

LOL. They are out there.

 

[GGTharos]

Radar is never used for this. All of it is done visually (radar and other emitters in general could potentially ignite the fuel) by all aircraft. /All/ formation flight is visual, radar is completely useless for it unless we start talking about radar trails through IMC or BVR tactics etc.

 

The tanker always makes a left pattern. You should be able to hook up on the straight leg or in the turn and stay with it in the turn. Tip: After estabilishing the turn on the boom, trim for it.

 

Ain't that the truth! If you are not doing everything a second or two ahead of time, you are doing it too late. And the absence of radar to give closure rates and relative positions makes this a unique test of flying skill in the Hog. BTW, is there any way to set the tanker's direction of tuen (right or left pattern) in the ME?

[sobek]

(radar and other emitters in general could potentially ignite the fuel)

 

Not only that, but it would pose a serious health risk to the tanker crew. They would be exposed to radiation doses far in excess of what can be considered neglegible.

Edited December 9, 2011 by sobek

[GGTharos]

More properly they'd get microwaved. This isn't like nuclear radiation :)

[sobek]

More properly they'd get microwaved. This isn't like nuclear radiation :)

 

Where did i say it was? :)

 

There's a strong chance that microwaves don't just do thermic damage to cells, so dosage should be considered.

[Bahger]

I gather that exposure to the radar positioned between the F-16 pilot's legs is suspected of being responsible for an unusually high incidence of testicular cancer among Viper drivers.

 

I still assumed you'd pick up a tanker's vector, altitude, aspect and closure via AA radar and that would guide you to it until you were visual, when you'd switch it off, but I stand corrected.

 

I assume there is no way to "hook" a tanker in the TAD in the A-10...?

[GGTharos]

I gather that exposure to the radar positioned between the F-16 pilot's legs is suspected of being responsible for an unusually high incidence of testicular cancer among Viper drivers.

 

I kinda doubt it, it's a piddly little radar ... *cough*

 

I still assumed you'd pick up a tanker's vector, altitude, aspect and closure via AA radar and that would guide you to it until you were visual, when you'd switch it off, but I stand corrected.

 

You might, especially at longer distances and if you have a radar, but more likely you know where to find the tanker (you should have a WP where its orbit is, or at least a vector in the form or BRA or bullseye). You'll know what altitude he's flying and where the tanker is because it was briefed. The speed is also standard for a given aircraft - so that information plus, if necessary, TACAN, is enough for you to get close enough to a tanker to spot it visually an re-join.

 

I assume there is no way to "hook" a tanker in the TAD in the A-10...?

 

No, the tanker is not on SADL, and the Link-16 <--> SADL gateway is not implemented.

[Bahger]

I kinda doubt it, it's a piddly little radar ... *cough*

Heh, well, maybe, but I first heard this theory voiced by F-16 pilots themselves so it has some credibility.

[sobek]

I gather that exposure to the radar positioned between the F-16 pilot's legs is suspected of being responsible for an unusually high incidence of testicular cancer among Viper drivers.

 

I don't think that Viper drivers often do a buddy spike on their own testicles. :D

 

Not that they are able to, anyway. ;)