CBU-97 bouncing with no explosions?

[Teriander]

Before the most recent patch my CBU-97s were behaving correctly. Bursting a few hundred feet into the air and spraying grenade size droplets on the ground at the right speed.

 

Now when I drop CBU-97s, they burst a few hundred feet into the air, but they release what look like smaller bombs with a parachute that slows them down, and they BOUNCE when they hit the ground about 100 feet into the air, come back down, and does nothing. No explosion or anything. What's going on? Are the CBU-97s broken or is it just me?

[ralfidude]

No, these are the PROPER CBUs.

 

 

Those are SKEETS

 

It would take too long to explain so here's a visual for ya instead:

 

Skip to 3:15, and at 3:56 listen to the explanation which explains what they do, which answers why yours dont act like they used to.

 

 

GQlkNEG-5WM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now if you want the OLD CBUs back, then all you have to do is equip the CBU 87 which has no skeets and just drops explosives like it used to. I think the CBU-103 is the GPS variant of the 87, while the CBU-105 is the GPS variant of the CBU-97 that both use SKEETs instead.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will however note that they are not perfect. Had WAYYYyyyy too many run ins with CBU 97s that did not sense the 30 vechiles underneath it, and instead they all locked on to ONE single tank.... happens too often im afraid.

Edited May 5, 2012 by ralfidude

[Teriander]

What the hell!? I've never seen a CBU do that before. Very interesting. What will they think of next. Thanks for clearing that up for me with a video. It all makes sense now...

[Depth]

CBU-87/103s are good for medium-soft targets like trucks, infantry, and other vehicles. CBU-97/105s are excellent at taking out heavier targets like tanks but also take out anything with a heat signature.

 

Note that the skeet dispensers are parachuted and susceptible to wind, should still cover a large area.

[MagnumHB]

This all being said, the current CBU-97s have some bugs where they often have a problem engaging targets in mountainous terrain. Hopefully this will be improved in the next patch, whenever that comes out.

[ENO]

That's all great and everything but doesn't address what the original poster was talking about- though strangely not even he is aware of it.

 

The munitions clearly act as they are supposed to in the game up until the point where they should detonate but instead of detonating they carry on to the ground, bounce, then head back up for a few hundred feet before actually detonating...

 

I've had this happen frequently on coastal missions- almost as if the munitions are traveling the distance required to drop to sea level. It looks like they bounce because the code won't let them go underground so instead flips them over or something.

[MagnumHB]

Either you are not being clear enough with what you mean, or you aren't getting how the CBU-97 works. Here's a handy diagram:

 

 

Now, if by "bouncing", you are referring to stage C in this diagram, this behavior is as intended and correct. The OP was referring to poor target detection in stage D which results in no targets being engaged as in stage E. The only bug that I have ever seen related to "bouncing", and it happens only rarely is when the EFP itself (the "beam" in stage E), somehow bounces or is launched into the air and continues for several thousand feet. Is this the bug you are referring to?

[Kaitsu]

This all being said, the current CBU-97s have some bugs where they often have a problem engaging targets in mountainous terrain. Hopefully this will be improved in the next patch, whenever that comes out.

 

One of the testers say it is fixed in current test build. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=85050

[Phuz]

IMO the only real bug with the CBU97 is that the Skeets aren't tracking moving vehicles. Instead, they track to where the vehicle was at the point in time when the skeet launches, but by the time the skeet arrives it is behind the actual vehicle.

 

Its a bigger problem with moving tanks/apcs than trucks. Realistic or not?

 

I dunno, im sure the cessna drivers will tell us.

[ENO]

I know the value of a track so if I can make one I'll post. The devices basically drop in the Shute and go straight to ground- then bounce up to whatever altitude and generally detonate as prescribed above. I kill targets with default settings- its just a visual bug that I've noticed. It is a bit hard to comprehend if you don't see it. Recently it happened to me at the sochi-Adler junction- in the vicinity of the train bridge and basically all up and down that main road. Like I said I'll try to get some video for ya.

 

I see your point with the moving vehicles too- and had that problem as wel.l I figure the drop time can be such that the dispenser itself being aimed (technically) at a non moving spot will result in the general skeet dispersal happening way behind a fast moving target. In that I imagine you need to drop the weapon on a spot further ahead- depending on your height and how fast the target is moving.

Edited May 7, 2012 by ENO

[ENO]

 

 

The video is a bit large but you get the idea. I've trimmed a small section where the video stops following the actual CBU and needs to transition over to the BLU-108 portion...

 

Then you see the shutes- and a couple detonate before hitting the ground... most actually hit the ground first, then bounce up... some of them then immediately detonate while others actually fly up a few hundred feet (if you watch the altitude display (if you can see it- not sure in the smaller edited version. The original was 441 megabytes!)

 

Anyway... I'm not particularly fussed about it- but before you keep suggesting that people reporting this bug don't understand how the munitions work- this is what THEY'RE talking about.

 

Hope it helps (edit: better explain the occurence.)

Edited May 7, 2012 by ENO

[Eddie]

Hope it helps resolve the issue.

 

Not at all, videos are useless for bug reporting. If you want to report a possible issue post a track as you originally said you would, although at this point 1.1.1.1 is so far behind current builds using it to report issues is largely pointless. The best bet would be to wait for the next A-10C patch beta and take a look and see if you can reproduce what you're talking about (again if I'm honest I'm not sure what that is).

 

From that video I can't see anything wrong at all.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Eddie

[ENO]

Okay well my bad- I didn't realize you wanted the whole track considering it's 24 megs and max is 5. I thought it might demonstrate what is happening to them. Perhaps that isn't so much the issue as you guys then need to figure out WHY it's happening and the track helps put the pieces together.

 

Nowhere in any documentation I've ever seen does it say they bounce off the ground a few hundred feet and then either explode or just go to ground (I get it- they didn't program in the self destruct... which I suspect is where some of this comes from). I asked the GF to explain what she saw when she watched the video (to make sure I captured the event properly)- without telling her anything at all except "what does it look like happens" and she said "well, it looks like they bounce." FRom 18 seconds until about 24 it LOOKS like I'm playing the feed in rewind- but I'm not. Those munitions have hit the ground and bounced back up to about 400 feet... and then go back to the ground again without detonating.

 

So- I guess if them bouncing is normal then it's not a bug at all.

 

Like you said- probably a non-issue anymore because we're on the verge of an update anyway.

Edited May 7, 2012 by ENO

[Eddie]

Okay well my bad- I didn't realize you wanted the whole track considering it's 24 megs and max is 5.

 

We don't want a large track either. What we need is a short track (as short as possible) showing the issue being described as well as a clear and concise description of the issue and the exact steps need to reproduce it. If for some reason a track can't be made, a clear step by step description of exactly how to reproduce the issue is even more vital.

 

A video doesn't help at all. And to illustrate why. From your video I can't tell if the BLU-108s are even close to the terrain or it's just the viewpoint, they could in fact be a hundred feet or more in the air when the rocket motors ignite or they could be hitting the ground as you say. The point is that from a low quality compressed video, we just can't tell.

 

A track, in addition to having no issues with quality as it's not a video, allows us to manipulate the views/simulation speed to see exactly what's happening from various angles etc.

[ENO]

Okay... no prob eddie. I'm still breaking my stride over here and learning some of the ropes of error reporting. WC gave me a bit of a heads up so I should have known better. Sorry!

[Talon-X-]

A nice in depth vid on the CBU-97

[GGTharos]

It looks to me like you're looking at the skeet carriers after they've ejected the skeets. The carriers, AFAIK, have no explosives on-board.

 

Eddie's right though ... can't really tell much from the video.

[Eddie]

It looks to me like you're looking at the skeet carriers after they've ejected the skeets.....

 

That was my impression as well.

[MagnumHB]

although at this point 1.1.1.1 is so far behind current builds using it to report issues is largely pointless.

An excellent point, and inspiration for me to do a bit of testing in World 1.1.2.1. With regard to the current direction of this conversation, the animations we see here are certainly no longer relevant. I've posted further observations here, and I'm quite curious to hear from the testers on some of the questions I've raised.

[ralfidude]

There is nothing wrong with it ENO.

 

You are confusing things for yourself. Id like to explain it to ya, but it would be long and confusing.

 

But the short answer is, there is nothing wrong with it, it is doing everything it should be doing. Those are not the skeets you are looking for, they are the cansiters at the very end. The skeets are like the size of a CD drom disc, but slightly thicker. Those things at the very end are the empty canisters that carried the skeets is what that looks like to me.

[ENO]

I understand the weapon and how it deploys. I've seen all the same videos as you guys have and though I'm a noob on the sim I do in fact have at LEAST one more brain cell than a plant.

 

The delivery vehicles in the video hit the ground and Then bounce back up to 400 feet. It is hard to tell because as a fault of my own I panned up to watch them fall back to earth.

 

Anyway this has progressed way beyond where I expected- i was simply acknowledging what the op was talking about and that it isn't just how the munition works unless the delivery mechanism is made of rubber or the ground is a trampoline.

 

I love the game and will make an effort to error report (about issues I really care about) in a more efficient manner. This is just a doily visual effect that hampers the suspension of disbelief.

[Eddie]

Had a check in 1.1.2.1 and the current testers build while looking at another issue with the 97/105.

 

The BLU-108s do not hit the ground before deploying the skeets, they descend to around 200ft on the chute and then the rockets ignite and spin them up as they should. In short, they work exactly as they should.

[ENO]

Perfect! I will wander around for the rest of the day feeling as if I am the sole reason this was resolved. We all do what we have to do to get by!

[ralfidude]

this is another look at them, they work fine.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBpZ3SAD72o&feature=youtube_gdata

[Teriander]

My original post was addressing exactly what ENO has been describing. But if this issue has been resolved in an unreleased patch, great. Thanks ENO for explaining in detail better than I did.