SAM range

[GGTharos]

The Tunguska is an anti-helicopter SAM. It's primary guidance method is optical. The primary search is datalink or its own radar. I don't know if any other SAMs in DCS do this - I expect no others are modeled. They're either IR homing, Radar homing, or radar guided radio commanded.

[MaverickF22]

The Tunguska is an anti-helicopter SAM. It's primary guidance method is optical. The primary search is datalink or its own radar. I don't know if any other SAMs in DCS do this - I expect no others are modeled. They're either IR homing, Radar homing, or radar guided radio commanded.

 

Roger that..., thanks a lot Tharos, so that explains it better now:thumbup:!

 

 

Respect to ED team!

 

Good day.

[Robin_Hood]

On page 32 of my A-10c checklist I've included a threat chart. Max engagement range/alt tested using player controlled A-10C. (exceptions were the SA-3, SA-10, SA-11 as these weapons reach well beyond the ceiling of the A-10C)

 

Available for download here:

 

http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/172905/

 

I will look at it and see if our data concurr. Plus, I managed to get above the SA-3 :) (obviously, I wouldn't picture an A-10C goint up to 50 000 ft or so).

 

EDIT: Just had a look. Most seem to match, although sometimes we have one or two thousands of feet of difference. Except for the -3. Also, most engagement (range at which they fist shoot - that's what I used) ranges are spot-on, except for the -15 and -11, for which I found a slightly lower range.

 

The Tunguska is an anti-helicopter SAM. It's primary guidance method is optical. The primary search is datalink or its own radar. I don't know if any other SAMs in DCS do this - I expect no others are modeled. They're either IR homing, Radar homing, or radar guided radio commanded.

 

Exactly what I though (optical guidance) when I tested the Tunguska. By the way, it loos to me like this method makes it for a less maneuverable missile (maybe not less maneuverable per se, but guidance-wise). It seems to have a hard time guiding on high LOS-rate (just beaming the SA-19 usually resulted in multiple missiles missing).

Edited June 26, 2013 by Robin_Hood

[GGTharos]

That is correct. Especially a fast fighter can give a tunguska a really hard time by beaming.

[Robin_Hood]

Ok, so here are the results of my tests. It is not a definitive study, but I hope you might find it of

interest. A few things I'd like to make clear or point out.

 

1. I do not guarantee the precision of the data, although I have spent a fair bit of time on it. Sometimes

it is hard to pinpoint the exact data. However, I thing it should be accurate enough.

2. Range tests have been made at medium altitude, around 12 000 ft. Engagement range might vary at

different altitudes. I should stress that I have not extensively tested being engaged at different

altitudes.

3. The presentaion is not optimal, but I do not feel like shaping up better than that right now. Feel free

to shape it up or use it in anyway you might want.

4. Notice some SAM systems will launch as soon as they track you, so be aware. Fortunately, only

medium/long range SAMs do that. Also, this may change in the future (and was actually tested in an earlier

build).

5. I have indicated "UNK" when I have not been able to pinpoint the data (typically because of the limited

ceiling of the aircraft used).

6. I have yet to do the tests with non-russian SAM systems. Also, no infrared-guided SAMs were tested.

7. All tests have been made with SAMs on "excellent" skill level.

8. "Minimum range" is rather speculative and only indicative, as it may vary with altitude.

 

Here is a short explanation of the data:

Search range is the range at which the system showed on the RWR.

Tracking range is the range at which a tracking indication was shown on the RWR.

Effective range is the range at which the system first fired a missile. Sometime several passes

were made to make sure the "reaction time" didn't distort the data for the very first shot.

Minimum range is the range at which the system started firing again, when overflown. It is only

indicative, as it might vary with reaction time, altitude and such.

Max altitude is the altitude (MSL) at which the SAM site could be safely overflown.

Min altitude is the altitude (actually a height, AGL) at which the SAM site couldn't fire and/or

track anymore.

 

 

SA-3 "Goa"

S-125

Search range: 75 km (40 nm)

Tracking range: 75 km (40 nm)

Effective range: 15 km (8 nm)

Minimum range: 5.5 km (3 nm)

Max altitude: 16 500 m (55 000 ft)

Min altitude: 200 m (650 ft)

 

SA-6 "Gainful"

Kub

Search range: 60 km (32 nm)

Tracking range: 60 km (32 nm)

Effective range: 25 km (13.5 nm)

Minimum range: 6 km (3.2 nm)

Max altitude: 11 000 m (36 000 ft)

Min altitude: 30 m (100 ft)

 

SA-8 "Gecko"

Osa

Search range: 25 km (13.5 nm)

Tracking range: 15 km (8 nm)

Effective range: 8 km (4.3 nm)

Minimum range: 1.5 km (0.8 nm)

Max altitude: 6 500 m (22 000 ft)

Min altitude: 10 m (33 ft)

 

SA-10 "Grumble"

S-300

Search range: 135 km (73 nm)

Tracking range: 60 km (32 nm)

Effective range: 60 km(32 nm)

Minimum range: 5 km (2.7 nm)

Max altitude: UNK

Min altitude: 25 m (80 ft)

 

SA-11 "Gadfly"

Buk

Search range: 85 km (45 nm)

Tracking range: 26 km (14 nm)

Effective range: 26 km (14 nm)

Minimum range: 4 km (2 nm)

Max altitude: UNK (greater than 19 000 m - 62 000 ft)

Min altitude: 15 m (50 ft)

 

SA-15 "Gauntlet"

Tor

Search range: 21 km (11.3 nm)

Tracking range: 18 km (9.7 nm)

Effective range: 8 km (4.3 nm)

Minimum range: 1.5 km (0.8 nm)

Max altitude: 8 000 m (26 000 ft)

Min altitude: 10 m (33 ft)

 

SA-19 "Grison"

Tunguska

Search range: 15 km (8 nm)

Tracking range: 12 km (6.5 nm)

Effective range: 8 km (4.3 nm)

Minimum range: UNK

Max altitude: 5 000 m (16 500 ft)

Min altitude: None

[Eihort]

The Tunguska is an anti-helicopter SAM. It's primary guidance method is optical. The primary search is datalink or its own radar. I don't know if any other SAMs in DCS do this - I expect no others are modeled. They're either IR homing, Radar homing, or radar guided radio commanded.

 

Not sure how sneaky the AI is, but other systems carry optical methods of target acq. Granted this is only good for ambushing if an IADS can tell you where to look, or the target gives itself away first, plus a whole slew of other obvious drawbacks. however, the first notification a pilot gets is an RWR screaming at them, followed seconds later by impact if it's done right.

 

[MaverickF22]

Thank you very much "Robin" for your time and effort to gather this data as it goes in our simulator! Now all it remains is to modify some missile's performances in it, in order to reflect the real data or as close as possible to it, where only ED knows how it should be done.

 

Let's hope that in time, those values shall be corrected.:book:

 

 

Have a good day!:thumbup:

[MaverickF22]

Granted this is only good for ambushing if an IADS can tell you where to look, or the target gives itself away first, plus a whole slew of other obvious drawbacks. however, the first notification a pilot gets is an RWR screaming at them, followed seconds later by impact if it's done right.

 

 

Wow..., so are you saying that a real TOR can fire a missile using either optical guidance or tracking data from another source, without using a radar illumination on it's target, then in the final phase of the interception it will guide the missile towards the target, by actively using it's radar?

[Eddie]

Wow..., so are you saying that a real TOR can fire a missile using either optical guidance or tracking data from another source, without using a radar illumination on it's target, then in the final phase of the interception it will guide the missile towards the target, by actively using it's radar?

 

Most Russian SAM systems can, in order that they can ensure at least some ability to engage targets when faced with NATO ECM & SEAD.

[MaverickF22]

Most Russian SAM systems can, in order that they can ensure at least some ability to engage targets when faced with NATO ECM & SEAD.

 

 

Thanks Eddie..., so all we need now is to have them implemented in future DCS patches!:D

 

 

Good day!;)

[MaverickF22]

Some SAM systems in action, i hope that in the future we can see those real, more detailed, screen informations or something similar in our simulator while playing as artillery commander (combined arms):

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBSY65UdL-w

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rObAizmhCU

 

 

The following has a more complete list of knowledge:

Edited August 26, 2013 by MaverickF22