How do I set a SAM station?

[junae]

Howdy all

 

 

 

I need some tips on the Mission Editor...

 

How do I set a SAM station? I'm a bit squeezed since there's some SAMs that look to have many components, for instance: the Hawk, there's the Hawk LN, Hawk TR (sorry if it's not the right name...) and Hawk SR.

 

 

The S300 station is another case, there's a lot of vehicles, antennas, launchers, etc... but I don't know how to set them (so they work properly) in the ME...

 

If you could give some tipos it would be nice

 

 

Thank you! ;)

[Caretaker]

Hi,

 

indeed with the more complex SAMs you need a bunch of vehicles working together in one group. The easiest way is to assign all required vehicles at once: the mission editor has selections available like "S-300 Complex" or "Patriot Complex". If you put one of those on the map, they will include all required vehicles; you can then place and align each of those individually.

[britgliderpilot]

In both the cases you list, there is actually an option to set a Hawk site or S300 site . . . .

 

 

If you really want to build them manually . . . .

At a guess, you'd need in the same group a search radar, a tracking radar, and some launchers. Patriot has to have the radar facing the right direction or you can sneak up behind it and shout BOO! in it's ear, not sure if Hawk's the same.

 

SR = search radar

TR = tracking radar

LN = launcher

 

Those are the essentials - multiple launchers are icing on the cake (and IIRC you can only go up to a certain number before the radar can't control them), and a couple of the sites have little trucks as well.

[junae]

The easiest way is to assign all required vehicles at once: the mission editor has selections available like "S-300 Complex" or "Patriot Complex".

 

 

Hummm... never saw this in the ME... where is this option?

 

 

 

And thank you Brit, I had a guess on the "LN" but not on the others ;)

[ARM505]

At the bottom of the list on the right....

[Caretaker]

Yup it's on the bottom of the list, like on the screen below - in fact it's not "S-300 Complex", but "S-300 site" (minor language confusion ;))

[junae]

Thank you, ... will check it tonight.

 

 

 

;)

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

junae - easiest with S300, Patriot, HAWK, BUK, KUB to use the ready made site as Caretaker said. They always seem to be at the bottom of the unit list for whichever country.

 

As my countryman britgliderpilot said, make sure you point the Patriot radar vehicle in the correct direction (it will default to pointing North when you first use the Mission Editor to place the Patriot site on the map). It has a flat planar array and an electronically steered beam so does not rotate like a regular radar. Treat it like a Claymore mine - point toward enemy! If you fly behind it, then it cannot see you.

All the other sites have a conventional rotating Search radar so can cover 360 degrees.

 

How these sites actually work is that the Search radar (SR) detects a bandit, and hands it over to a Tracking radar (TR) which then controls the actual engagement with a missile fired from the Launcher vehicle (LN).

 

The HAWK site is a typical site with seperate Search radar, Tracker radar and launchers.

KUB is similar but the Search and Tracking radar are on the same vehicle (KUB STR).

BUK has a Search radar vehicle and each launcher vehicle has a tracking radar on it.

PATRIOT uses the same radar for both the search and tracking functions.

The S300 site has two types of search radar, one tracking radar and two types of launcher vehicle.

[WhiskeyRomeo]

Once you've placed a SAM site on the map its possible to "drag" the individual vehicles/radars into different locations on the map. You'll have to zoom in on the SAM site and it helps to use the Satellite Map mode to see more detail of the site's location. (If you move the FIRST item in a group the whole group will shift around on the map).

 

Also after you've setup the basic SAM site you can add extra vehicles/radars/launchers, etc, to that grouping. For example you can add another Patriot radar to increase that SAM site's coverage or add in some short range SAMs to help protect the SAM site.

[christopher m]

SAM installations

 

I am gonna print this thread and stick it in my manual

 

Regards,

[Weta43]

There are also two "dated" S-300 sites as well at the very bottom of the list - (dated like they have 1988 in the name or something)

They drop about a hundred units each on your map - use sparingly :-)

[junae]

... make sure you point the Patriot radar vehicle in the correct direction (it will default to pointing North when you first use the Mission Editor to place the Patriot site on the map)...

 

 

Thanks for all the tips guys, it was easier than I thought! LOL

 

 

Just a question on the Patriot: what's the angular limit of it's detection? I mean, how 'loose' can I place it so that it will still detect enemies?

 

 

cheers!!

[Weta43]

Put one down & try flying around it :-)

Try a search on posts - I think I remember someone giving the limits

[Raven68]

Is it true that within these SAM sites that they use a switching tactic to throw off any air opposition to keep them from destroying the radar?

 

Example:

* In a SAM site there could be multiple search and tracking radar to somewhat maintain redundancy.

* Also to have the element of surprise against the opposition. A site could decoy an enemy plane with the intent of SEAD, but just as he gets ready to strike...the SAM site shuts off the radar and then turns on another with launchers that have the range to kill the enemy plane.

 

If this is to be true...is it possible to set this up in the mission editor?

[WhiskeyRomeo]

Patriot: what's the angular limit of it's detection?

From the LockOn Encylopedia:

Max number of target tracks: 100

Max number of target that can be tracked

automatically: 9

Radar detection range: 3-170 km

Search sector:

(azimuth) 120°

(elevation) 90°

Tracking sector: 110°

 

Raven68;

What you mention is one SAM tactic that is used.

More often you'd probably have EWRs (early warning radars) cooperating with SAM sites. There are also other SAM tactics that Lock On doesnt model.

No, the Misson Editor and SAM AI models do not support advanced SAM tactics.

[Caretaker]

If this is to be true...is it possible to set this up in the mission editor?

 

Unfortunately no. Lock On, along with basically all other sims, models anti-radar missiles with much more efficiency than they have in real life; mostly because the SAM sites don't switch off their radar. Already in Vietnam the radar operators found out that this was a good and easy tactic against the early ARMs, and even though modern missiles like the HARM or ALARM try all sorts of tricks to still hit the spot where the last signal was coming from or reacquire the target if it starts emitting again, this is by no means an accurate aim.

 

I've read figures about the HARM over Yugoslavia with a hit rate of <1%; apparently the ALARM worked a bit better. Hard to verify of course. However - and that is the other side - SEAD missions are not meant to destroy enemy SAM systems anyway; rather, it's about suppressing them so they don't pose a threat to other planes. A radar that is switched off is useless after all. So SAM operators have to find ways of minimizing exposure time, but still allowing to fire enemy planes when they're in range. And ideally, luring fighters into a trap where they suddenly find themselves in range of SAM systems that they didn't notice.

 

So it's a complicated issue in real life, much more so than what any flight sim shows. As Lock On's ground units turn on their radar all the time and there's no way to influence that in the mission planner, they are relatively easy to destroy (or at least avoid).

 

Redundancy (placing several search/tracking radars in the group) in turn might just work; I think there were some issues with that but I haven't checked it for a while. Maybe worth a try :)

[Raven68]

Unfortunately no. Lock On, along with basically all other sims, models anti-radar missiles with much more efficiency than they have in real life; mostly because the SAM sites don't switch off their radar. Already in Vietnam the radar operators found out that this was a good and easy tactic against the early ARMs, and even though modern missiles like the HARM or ALARM try all sorts of tricks to still hit the spot where the last signal was coming from or reacquire the target if it starts emitting again, this is by no means an accurate aim.

 

I've read figures about the HARM over Yugoslavia with a hit rate of <1%; apparently the ALARM worked a bit better. Hard to verify of course. However - and that is the other side - SEAD missions are not meant to destroy enemy SAM systems anyway; rather, it's about suppressing them so they don't pose a threat to other planes. A radar that is switched off is useless after all. So SAM operators have to find ways of minimizing exposure time, but still allowing to fire enemy planes when they're in range. And ideally, luring fighters into a trap where they suddenly find themselves in range of SAM systems that they didn't notice.

 

So it's a complicated issue in real life, much more so than what any flight sim shows. As Lock On's ground units turn on their radar all the time and there's no way to influence that in the mission planner, they are relatively easy to destroy (or at least avoid).

 

Redundancy (placing several search/tracking radars in the group) in turn might just work; I think there were some issues with that but I haven't checked it for a while. Maybe worth a try :)

 

Great piece of info there Caretaker. You do have a great knowledge base on this subject.

[Brit_Radar_Dude]

There are also two "dated" S-300 sites as well at the very bottom of the list - (dated like they have 1988 in the name or something)

They drop about a hundred units each on your map - use sparingly :-)

Actualy Weta ol' buddy, you will find that it is a complete Motor Rifle Battalion - 2 versions for the years noted in the name. Can't imagine anyone ever using it, as you said, it is dozens of units. Brings my rig to its knees.