SU-25T Air-Ground HUD doesn't match manual (harder to use)

[Hielor]

I recently started trying to use unguided bombs with the SU-25T, and I noticed that the HUD differs from the manual and training videos in a couple of ways that make it much more difficult to use.

In game:

 

Manual:

 

As you can see, the CCIP pipper is very limited in the area it can traverse on the HUD--it can't go below a certain point. This makes dive bombing via the CCIP much more difficult, since you have a much smaller angle to work with.

 

Is there a way to get the CCIP to have the full travel of the HUD as shown in the training videos and manual?

 

The other issue is with the display of selected ordnance on the HUD. In-game, you only get bars whose horizontal position corresponds to their pylon. If you have different weapons on each station, it can be difficult to tell which set of pylons are actually selected. In the training videos and manual, there's a much more usable layout that shows all of your pylons simultaneously. I did notice that a number briefly appeared above the bars while the CCIP pipper was active, but due to the above issue of limited CCIP travel you don't get much usage out of this. In addition, the training video shows this display being active even when the CCIP isn't (when it's at its extreme edge of the display).

 

I scanned through recent changelogs and didn't see any mention of this being changed. Was this an intentional change, or is there a bug here?

 

Thanks,

Hielor

Edited October 13, 2013 by Hielor

[Hielor]

A little more info: I realized that both the manual and tutorials had the HUDs in Russian instead of English, so I tried switching the cockpit to Russian in the settings, but it didn't make a difference--the CCIP pipper was still limited and the ordnance display was just a couple of bars (and sometimes nothing at all, depending on which station is selected).

 

So, the issue isn't just with the English HUD.

[Hielor]

Thanks for the reply. I've searched through several YouTube videos, and the most recent ones I've found showing the SU-25T dropping unguided bombs (from 5-6 months ago) do show the new way of displaying the active munition, but also have the CCIP able to go all the way to the bottom of the HUD.

 

I didn't see anything in patch notes from the last 6 months talking about the CCIP being constrained to only use part of the HUD, and that's really the larger issue here. It makes dive bombing a lot more difficult than it would have been previously.

 

I also spent some time trying to find videos of the actual SU-25T HUD, but my limited knowledge of Russian means I'm having a harder time figuring out what I should be looking for. Combine that with there being so few SU-25Ts IRL, and all I'm really getting are results from within DCS World.

 

I've only started using DCS World recently, so I can't say for certain when exactly this change happened--but given how much more difficult it makes dive bombing, it seems to me that this may be a bug instead of an intentional change...

[Fishbreath]

You might try going back to 1.2.4 or so (see this sticky)—the earliest version of 1.2.4 was released on April 30th, which is just inside your window for the videos. If the CCIP pipper falls further then, you might have a case for getting it changed back.

 

I was flying the Su-25T earlier, having been in other stuff for a while, and it did seem like it was harder to drop dumb bombs CCIP than it used to be.

 

Edit: here's a

showing the pipper at the very bottom of the HUD, from 'six months ago'. This appears to be before the last HUD fix, where they put the pylon indicators for dumb bombs back in. Could it be that they changed (accidentally or intentionally) the bomb release pipper so that it didn't cover the pylon indicators? Edited October 14, 2013 by Fishbreath

[Hielor]

Thanks for the tip about using the updater to go back to previous versions. With that method, I was able to determine that the CCIP limitation was introduced in 1.2.5.

 

Update to (latest) 1.2.4-- CCIP is not limited and can go to the bottom of the HUD

Update to (latest/only) 1.2.5 -- CCIP is restricted so it can't use the bottom part of the HUD.

 

I also noticed that the pylon indicators were indeed in 1.2.4, so it wasn't changed at the same time.

 

The only SU-25T related items in the 1.2.5 changelist:

1 Su-25T: The gun funnel has been adjusted

2 Su-25T Quick Start mission trigger has been fixed.

3 Su-25: Bombs falling short when using CCRP has been fixed.

4 Su-25: Turning ON the laser rangefinder no longer causes the targeting cross to jump outside the gunsight now.

 

Items 3 and 4 are for the FC3 SU-25, just included for completeness.

 

Not covering the pylon indicators isn't really a good reason to constrain it, since the ability to use the lower part of the HUD for bombing is much more important, and at the point when the CCIP pipper will be over the pylons you would already be in a dive and paying more attention to the pipper than the pylons...

 

Seems to me that this might be an actual bug. Is there a specific procedure for reporting this as such? I wish I could change the title of the thread to be more specific.

 

Thanks for your help!

[Fishbreath]

I'm not sure if there's a real process. I occasionally see references to a bug tracking system, but I'm not sure if that's for testers only. If it is, keep bumping the thread, or maybe start a new one with a more descriptive title and link back here for the previous discussion/research; someone will see it eventually. There's not generally a ton of acknowledgement when they do.

 

Alternatively, one of these upcoming patches is supposed to be the start of open betas before the final release, so that might open up a ticket tracking system to the general public.

[Hielor]

Unguided Bomb CCIP pipper limited to only part of HUD

 

Previous discussion: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=115622 . Making a thread with a more specific title based on suggestions in that thread.

 

A series of images may best show the problem.

 

The Unguided bomb CCIP:

 

The Rocket CCIP:

 

As you can see, the CCIP for unguided bombs is not currently using the full height of the HUD. Compare to the image in the manual, showing that it did at one point:

 

I did some research into previous versions, and discovered that this was introduced in DCS World 1.2.5 -- the latest version of 1.2.4 has the CCIP for unguided bombs that can use the full HUD, while the latest/only version of 1.2.5 has the limited CCIP.

 

It seems that in 1.2.5 the unguided bomb CCIP was changed to be limited to the same region of the HUD as the cannon's CCIP. However, unlike the cannon, the bombs don't fire forward. Limiting the CCIP this way means that dive bombing runs have to be much steeper, and as a result you're going faster and have less time to react, which makes dive bombing runs a lot more difficult to pull off successfully.

 

Please allow the unguided bomb CCIP to use the full height of the HUD again!

Edited October 24, 2013 by Hielor

[Fishbreath]

I'd like to see this fixed, too. I'm planning on introducing two friends to DCS via the Su-25T, and it's much harder to work on bombs with CCIP being so hard to get to.

[mj3437]

CCIP still broken

 

As the title says. The CCIP piper still doesn't go to the bottom of the HUD making a very steep dive necessary to make it work. I was hoping this would be fixed with this latest update.

MJ

[johnsonscott]

Yeah i saw lots of review regarding this problem and staff have mention they are fixing this pronblem..

Edited January 26, 2014 by johnsonscott

[mj3437]

This is concerning the Su-25T in DCS World. I don't have Flaming Cliffs. Why was this moved?

MJ

[mj3437]

Nobody?

[mj3437]

No news on this since the latest update?

MJ

[Hielor]

I don't think these threads should've been combined...this thread was talking about other issues as well...

[Wags]

Already fixed internally and will be in 1.2.8.

 

Previous discussion: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=115622 . Making a thread with a more specific title based on suggestions in that thread.

 

A series of images may best show the problem.

 

The Unguided bomb CCIP:

 

The Rocket CCIP:

 

As you can see, the CCIP for unguided bombs is not currently using the full height of the HUD. Compare to the image in the manual, showing that it did at one point:

 

I did some research into previous versions, and discovered that this was introduced in DCS World 1.2.5 -- the latest version of 1.2.4 has the CCIP for unguided bombs that can use the full HUD, while the latest/only version of 1.2.5 has the limited CCIP.

 

It seems that in 1.2.5 the unguided bomb CCIP was changed to be limited to the same region of the HUD as the cannon's CCIP. However, unlike the cannon, the bombs don't fire forward. Limiting the CCIP this way means that dive bombing runs have to be much steeper, and as a result you're going faster and have less time to react, which makes dive bombing runs a lot more difficult to pull off successfully.

 

Please allow the unguided bomb CCIP to use the full height of the HUD again!

[mj3437]

That's good news Wags. Thanks

MJ

[Hielor]

Great to hear, thanks!

[mj3437]

I updated this morning and it looks like all is good! No more lawn dart!

Thanks

MJ