[PENDING FUTURE UPDATE] HUD bugs / inaccuracies

[jaguara5]

Several hud bugs / inaccuracies.

1. When guns are selected the altitude and speed indicators must be in the depressed position (in the middle of the hud), as in MAG mode, and not in up position (watch in the track file how the position of these indicators changes with the weapons change).

References:

(watch at 20:00 forward - with CAN speed and altitude in depressed position) . Tape from French Air Force

(watch the weaponS change at around 1:20 speed and altitued indicators stay at the same position). Tape from HAF

 

2. MAG dlz scale / range indication. IRL with MAG selected, when the distance of the target drops to 1,9 nm, the indication on the range carret next to the dlz changes from (1.9) nm to meters (to 35 =3500m) and the range caret with the 35 indication moves up (so the scale of the dlz changes to).

References

(watch at 2:42 - 2:43). Tape from HAF.

(2:47 - 2:48 watch the numeric range indication - 34 - and the caret position, which matches perfectly the indications of the previous video) . OFFICIAL VIDEO FROM EC 2/5

(watch 19:33 forward).

In game the range indications changes when the distance drops to 0.6 nm (and not at 1,9 nm), the meters indication is 4 digit (=1200) and not 2 digit (35) and the scale of the dlz doesn't change. Watch the track file.

 

3. With guns selected and a radar lock. when the distance of the target drops EDITED - around 1000 m see also the last post - the dlz dissapears (IRL) and the range is indicated exclussively with counter clockwise moving piper.

Already reported in the past (with reference picture, there are dozens of other hud tapes, i can provide additional videos if needed).

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2626854&postcount=24

(watch at 33 : 21 to 24 , there is also a delay in the symbology change).

 

In DCS , the range scale remains always visible.

 

4. The closure speed indication in the provided track is totally unreliable (negative indication at some point while the targe is coming closer).

 

5. Gun snake bug. With radar lock sometimes the pipper circle doesn't appear. This was reported a long long time ago. It appears very very rarely, and i thought it was corrected, first time that i'm showing it in a track. Had it occassionaly the last month (during my limited gaming time). Watch the track file, when the distance drops to 0.6 nm and guns are selected, only the snake is visible without the pipper.

 

6. In the following videos there is a slight delay in the hud symbology change.

2:34

0:57

When a target is locked in magic mode, the inner circle appears first with the small intercept square in the middle, after ~ 0.5 second the second TIR outer circle comes in and onle after that the square starts moving (I think the computer needs some time to calculate the intercept path).

In game the symbology changes instantly.

 

7. When the last MAG missile is fired (so no more active weapons are left onboard), the outer double circle , the TIR indication and the range markers on the DLZ are dissapearing

(official 2/5 video).

(watch 2:47 - 2:48, the TIR indications is gone with a slight delay, watch also that the firing magic missile is the only one carried form the shooting aircraft as indicitated by no G(auche) or D(roit) indications on the lower part of the HUD).

In dcs those indications are still present (it's not showed in the provided track file but you can test it very easily).

HUD bug 3..trk

Edited October 16, 2020 by jaguara5

[jaguara5]

In this HAF video

(watch at 1:03 , 2:54) there is an M indication when the target lock is lost and running in memory mode. In game there is no indication (needs to be confirmed by AdA if this is valid for the Mirage 2000C's S5 also).

In any case, an M indication appears on the radar screen of the french version, see attached image form razbam's first simulator trip (lower left picture). Funcionalty of this indication must be confirmed by AdA (can only speculate that this is the same M as above).

Edit- sorry can't upload the picture posted from razbam's simulator session , i have reached the upload limit. If someone can attach the picture or guide me how can i expand the upload limit

Edited October 4, 2020 by jaguara5

[jojo]

4: in my experience, the closing speed is unreliable at close range in TWS only (ok in STT).

Could you confirm this is what you’re talking about ?

[jaguara5]

In my experience, the closing speed is unreliable at close range in TWS only (ok in STT).

Could you confirm this is what you’re talking about ?

 

No it was in CCM

[jaguara5]

Another video (from AdA - ec 2/5) posted in discord that supports some of the above reported bugs (like that the speed and altitude indication in CAN mode should be in the depressed position, also watch 2: 24 - 2:29 the exact distance point at which the DLZ is removed in CAN mode (around 1000m).

It seems also that the range indication on the dlz in CAN mode (before it is removed) is identical with that of the MAG mentioned in the first post, we can see the indication 17 = 1700m, going down to 10 = 1000m, in game the indication remains in nm).

Edit - the only mode at which the indication remains in nm, and doesn't convert at all to m, seems to be the 530,

watch this video at the very beginning

Finally, there is the dashed part of the snake line visible. According to real pilot, the dashed part starts 50 or 100 m before the 300m mark, depending on speed (or AoA can't remember as i can't remember the exact speed / aoa value at which the dashed part extends or gathers respectively to 50/100m before 300, input from AdA is needed). The dashed part shouldn't be used for aiming due to the close distance.

Edited October 17, 2020 by jaguara5

[jaguara5]

The closure speed is different between PIC and PID (intented?).

Also the range indication for the 530D changes below 0.6 nm to m as it shouldn't, according to the video reffered in the previous post

closure speed bug 630 range 3..trk

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

While alot of HUD footage is difficult to read from, it is also difficult to tell what model of M2000C is used as some may be the D/N version. I would suggest keeping this post in mind and after the next update come back and edit your post as there alot of big changes coming.

[El Chapo]

Mirage 2000 D and N have no gun, and no training A/A gun mode.

This should answer most of your concerns regarding the accuracy zf these videos.

2/5 Sqn videos should not need any further discussion either.

It leaves us with the M2000EG questions. Are these more 2000C or 2000-5 airframes? As long as you are with Magic II and gun modes, there is no difference.

So you might consider taking it as it is : a fairly accurate and nicely documented input.

 

And thanks for these videos, they are interesting!

[RAZBAM_ELMO]

Mirage 2000 D and N have no gun, and no training A/A gun mode.

This should answer most of your concerns regarding the accuracy zf these videos.

2/5 Sqn videos should not need any further discussion either.

It leaves us with the M2000EG questions. Are these more 2000C or 2000-5 airframes? As long as you are with Magic II and gun modes, there is no difference.

So you might consider taking it as it is : a fairly accurate and nicely documented input.

 

And thanks for these videos, they are interesting!

 

Now im not sure how I pronounce your name in English nor do I have the ability to spell it so for now I will use Rob (it looks similar but i do apologize if i offend you in any way), but were you not the same gentleman saying that you flew Mirages or have experience in them? I'm just trying to get a grasp of the field of expertise surrounding this place.

[jaguara5]

Updated track showing

1. wrong speed / altitude indication in CAN mode, should be like in MAG mode in the depressed position.

2. wrong MAG (and CAN) scale / indication as stated above (at 1.9 nm range the numeric indication should change to 35(00m) and the DLZ scale changes also (35 is the top part of the DLZ). This is valid for MAG and CAN, in 530D (not showed in the attached track file) the indication should remain always in nm.

3. wrong DLZ / indications while in CAN mode as stated above (at about 1000m the DLZ is removed and range is indicated only with the counter clockwise moving piper)

4. wrong indication after last missile is fired as stated above (the outer circle , the TIR indication and the range markers on the DLZ should be removed)

5. instantaneous symbology change (as stated above, with MAG lock the inner circle appears first with the small intercept square in the middle, after ~ 0.5 second the second TIR outer circle comes in and onle after that the square starts moving), must be confirmed with SME.

6. dashed part of the snake line is missing as stated above.

7. (new observation) the altitude alert arrow on all videos that are in the net is blinking, in DCS it is steady. Not showed in the attached track file, can be confirmed with SME   Resolved. (Edited)

hud track ..trk

Edited December 19, 2020 by jaguara5

[jaguara5]

Another small observation from a  hud tape. In GUN (ΑAG hud indication for the EGM variant)  mode  + radar lock, the snake line with the the pipper on the bottom part  are displayed when the target gets at 1600m (16 indication on the dlz).

At 2:52

 

So to summarize all the gun  symbology that must be corrected : 

The  dlz is displaying the distance in 2 digits below 35(00) m (as in MAG mode). 

Above 16(00m) there is no snake / pipper but only the center circle. 

At 1600m the snake appears with the  a fully displayed pipper at the bottom part of the snake.

At around 1000m the dlz dissapears.

And the dashed part of the snake is missing

 

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by jaguara5