Svandamme76

Holy Old thread reply bump Batman. but here goes The story is BS.. because No US plane has ever launched actual Aim 54's at Allied F16's .. EVER. The missiles cost a shit ton the planes cost shit tonnes more And the pilots lives are worth even more all mock fights are simulated.. and there's no evading a simulated missile. They call their shot.. and then simulate an evasion , which is then evaluated in debrief, eg check if the shooting was done from good parameters.. And put that against the defense break.. all that usually requires an ACM range with all the tracking of all planes. But none of that happened with Aim 54.. because that's a BVR missile and nobody does simulated BVR fighting.. since you can't simulate any of that with real planes anyway.. you might as well simulate it in a SIM on the ground, which is cheaper. you cannot simulate BVR, since that's pure radar/missile PK discussion.. the closest anybody got , is shooting drones. Any kind of dogfights simulated with allies.. involves visual rules because that's where the real tactics and maneuvering takes place. So the story about dutch rookie F16's evading Phoenixes clearly is BS. Nobody evades missiles in friendly dogfighting.

In Oostende, at Atlantik Wall there was something called the Pink Villa. a Huge square looking McMansion of the Interbellum.. The germans had incorporated it in the defences.. it was full of machine guns overlooking the beach.. It still exists to this day https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x47dca52eca38f041%3A0xfd815b1553ee3d02!3m1!7e115!4s%2Fmaps%2Fplace%2Froze%2Bvilla%2Boostende%2F%4051.2053222%2C2.8547673%2C3a%2C75y%2C59.09h%2C90t%2Fdata%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211sKIf7_lYTweVLeuc1IuMusQ*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x47dca52eca38f041%3A0xfd815b1553ee3d02%3Fsa%3DX%26hl%3Den!5sroze%20villa%20oostende%20-%20Google%20Search!15sCgIgAQ&imagekey=!1e2!2sKIf7_lYTweVLeuc1IuMusQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilxPLkmJLqAhXO_qQKHUW8DdkQpx8wCnoECA8QCw&cshid=1592718098297349 Street view also shows how the coast looks.. the sea wall and dunes protecting the lower laying land more inland Old timers friend of mine(now passed away) told me the story, that his uncle, a local fishermen and beach comber had permits to go out fishing But between fixed hours.. Obviouslyalways pushing the limits.. stretching his time out in sea..coming back in way past curfew. The locals knew where all the mines were and had to cross the beach foll of mines and obstacles Till at some point the Germans had enough of it.. and from the Pink Villa, they their MG42's up and down the beach to teach him a lesson. The story goes he ran full speed to his little house in the dunes, barged through the door and under/behind the bed.. in some kind of stupor , he had literally shit his pants and his nerves were completely shot.. My friend had a Mauser with full matching 39 stamps, that he had gotten from somebody's attic not far from the Pink Villa. I've shot it, the thing was very accurate (but not as good as my 44 rebarreld 42 1903A3 that I shot at service rifle competitions out to 800 yds.)

Not a fort, just City walls, Ramparts.. Built by famous French architect, Vauban.. the water around them is actually visible in DCS But it's probably quite more work to model and match it with the water now visible.. vs just putting some of hte bigger buildings in with the rest of the "furniture".. as for the Menin Gate... the first thing Hitler did... After having Blitzkriegd over Belgium.. was to visit Ypres and the Menin Gate..They weren't yet finished fighting near Dunkirk , Operation Dynamo was in full swing, when he visited the former WW1 Salient, Ypres and some key places(where he had been).

I'm missing the Atlantikwall defenses , bunkers and what not. And the German Airfield at Koksijde.. that still exists.. including the hangers from that era.. Also, there were 2 HUUUUGE V1 complexes in North of France, still in existance today Block haus near Eperleques, one slightly to the east They really cannot be ignored in the Channel map.. they were very important structures in the Air War, the target of many Tall Boy and Grand Slam missions these were some of the biggest Nazi constructions done in WW2, along with the Sub pens.. There was also a v3 site, but that one would not have been as visible from the air. most of that was under ground.. It was the predecessor of the space cannon, the Bull Super cannon that Sadam Hussein himself wanted to build at some point.. 1 Atlantik Wall Still many bits remaining to this day that can be used to get an idea https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saint-Omer,+France/@51.2006049,2.8451201,251m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47dcf893912760af:0x40af13e8163d5e0!8m2!3d50.750115!4d2.252208?hl=en Note the coast line.. Most of the land inwards is below sea So the current Channel map doesn't show that, the farmland starts right up next to the sea, which isn't possible in Flanders. There has to be a bit of a dune area and a sea wall.. to protect the inland from flooding.. 2 BlockHaus Eperleques, huge Square V2 bunker complex Tall boys just bounced off .. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Blockhaus+d'%C3%89perlecques/@50.8286461,2.1838004,106m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0xffc71c17b9dcdb54!8m2!3d50.8285845!4d2.1836797?hl=en http://www.leblockhaus.com/en/ 3 La Coupole, huge Dome V2 Bunker Complex.. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saint-Omer,+France/@50.7050559,2.2433036,151m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47dcf893912760af:0x40af13e8163d5e0!8m2!3d50.750115!4d2.252208?hl=en https://www.lacoupole-france.co.uk/ 4 Koksijde military Airfield https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saint-Omer,+France/@51.0975222,2.6402116,1066m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47dcf893912760af:0x40af13e8163d5e0!8m2!3d50.750115!4d2.252208?hl=en blurred on google maps as it's still military the german built hangars are now used by the SAR ' http://www.belgian-wings.be/webpages/navigator/photos/milltarypics/airfields/koksijde.htm 5 Flemish towns also lack the typical church, and in towns like Ypres there's some big very identfiable mideaval structures and the Menin Gate. Many English people know that well as it's a WW1 pelgrimage.. Cloth Hall, and cathedral , clearly visible https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saint-Omer,+France/@50.8514916,2.8850591,164m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47dcf893912760af:0x40af13e8163d5e0!8m2!3d50.750115!4d2.252208?hl=en Menin Gate https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saint-Omer,+France/@50.8519392,2.8911836,89m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x47dcf893912760af:0x40af13e8163d5e0!8m2!3d50.750115!4d2.252208?hl=en

would be nice to have at least engine completely off modeled.. It opens up a lot of new tactics as done in AIMVAL real world Aim9 Lima testing

As the title says.. I'm getting shot up with heat seekers when my engines are cold. That doesn't make any sense at all.. I'm not talking idle I'm talking engines not running & cold as can be... Is engine state at all modeled in DCS?

Got the new stable, all is well in the world ! thanks!

no i'm on stable.. bit confusing if they announce it in the stable version and don't mention "only in beta" sure early access, but so is f14b at the moment, and that's in stable ...

On startup DCS news linked tells me it's been released the page says download it via module manager the license account page confirms I have a license for it. But there's no Supercarrier to be found in the Module Manager. I'm on stable version, surely early access doesn't mean it's for the Beta DCS only? It's been out there much longer, right?

10-4 !

No apologies needed, thanks for checking and clarifying!! Just for my info: the weights is just a loadout page issue in DCS But the pallets themselves, in game should impart drag on the flight model? I may have do some more extensive testing on that.. Just not sure how to measure drag Maybe setup a start of a slick jet at 40000 feet at a given speed and chronometer how long it takes to be come a hole in the ground vs how long it takes one with 4 pallets. It's far from scientific, but IF i did 4 tests with each config and average em out per group.. it should give me 2 distinctly different values. within each group there really should not be much variation at all given that the sim starts out the same and there isn't really much random turbulence in each start.

I think the overweight 8B and 1B Sparrow and Phoenix is from that vertical bit hanging down. The sim calculates that as an additional adapter. But in real life I don't think I've ever seen a Tomcat without one.. Except for perhaps the early prototypes during initial test flights. 1 Aim 7 on station 8B or 1B is 119 lbs to heavy << scratch this 2 Aim 54c on Station 8B or 1B is about 100 lbs to heavy << Scratch this But the rest still is off.. Not pallet weight is accounted for in the loadout screen. Those Phoenix missiles+ pallet should still weight more then the ones on 1B or 8B And loadout should add weight to any other weaponry that hangs under a pallet. And.. the 2 Sidewinders on 1 pylon... was almost never ever done in the real world. And when it was done.. that lower part on teh pylon off which the Phoenix or Sparrow was hung wasn't take off.. While in DCS, with 2 Sidewinders on the pylon.. that lower part is removed.. I doubt that ever happened in the real world, and doubt they ever took that part of the wing glove pylon off.. very little pictures (never mind good quality pictures) to support that .. It's complicated.. But I think the sim currently allows combinations of stores in DCS is not realistic for what would have been possible in the real world.. And even in the Sim it looks impossible.. Put Aim54 in #4 3xMk82's in 5 4xMk82's in 3 and 3xMk83's on 6 The Mk83's show up so big, they overlap the front mk82's.. the nose cone of the Aim54 on 4 overlaps with the tail of the Mk82's on 3 So there's just to much combinations possible, that simply should not be allowed..

suspect the same applies for other weaponry Mk83 can go on 1b or 8b, or on pallet as a single Completely empty Tomcat, nothing on any station, no pallets, 0% gun ammo 1 mk83 should be 1000 lbs, give or take a few 1 mk82 should be 500 lbs , give or take a few 60239 lbs total 0 weapons A 1 mk83 on station 8b on a bomb rack 1393 393lbs for that bomb rack B 2 mk82's on 8b 1470 That would mean the bomb rack weights 470lbs for the bomb rack Which would not be consistent with the weight of a single mk83 and the same bomb rack C 4 mk83's each on their own pallet and attachment 4449 that means 1 mk83 + attachment + pallet is 1112 lbs 1 attachment + pallet is 158 lbs D 4 mk82's each on own pallet and attachment 2632 So each mk82 + attachment + pallet is 658 lbs 1 attachment + pallet is 158 lbs C&D is consistent, bit light per haps since a pallet should weight 200 and there's a single bomb attachment that must have some weight. E 4 Mk82's on a Mak79 2213 lbs So that's 4 500lbs bombs, 1 mak79 and 1 pallet MAk79+ pallet is 213 lbs F 3 Mk83's on a MAk 79 1660 lbs 3 500lbs bombs, 1 mak79 and 1 pallet mak79 + 1 pallet is 160 lbs In E and F also have visibility issues.. in some assymetrical loads the pallet is invisible but in all stations loaded to the max.. i do see the pallets, but the bombs are free floating below the pallet.. there's no adapter holding them on the pallet.. Especially visible with mk81's or mk82.s Kinda doubt Mk81's were ever cleared on Tomcat. They aren't common ammunition anyway.. very little purpose in taking that kind of load up with a Tomcat. US military discontinued the Mk81 quite quickly as it proved to be insufficient in Vietnam.. They probably never happened in the real word with Tomcats At least not the dumb bomb version.. So My vote is to remove those firecrackers from the menu.. Gonna knock it off now.. Guess i got a bit bored on the job , this homeworking.. distractions oooh, piece of candy

Thanks Mike, don't hesitate to ping me if anything isn't clear in my write up, or if you can't reproduce.. The main concern here is that the Sparrows become completely pointless if there's no weight /drag advantage involved . Sparrow vs Aim54 on it's own should yield a reasonable benefit in the weight/drag department for station 8b and 1b. But overall that's not to bad. twice as heavy And perhaps but probably just a bit more drag since they are both designed for aerodynamic performance and both fully hanging in the wind so to speak But a Sparrow sunk into the fuselage, between the nacelles vs Aim 54's on a pallet would be a MASSIVE difference Both in weight and in drag. Once source I found says those pallets weigh about 200 lbs each. https://books.google.be/books?id=KM4hAQAAIAAJ&q=pallets+weigh+on+tomcat&dq=pallets+weigh+on+tomcat&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiM14CDisPpAhUIjqQKHeIDDl4Q6AEIKDAA Seems a bit low to me, considering they are about 4 meters in length and not made out of pot metal.. Still, 4 pallets, is 800 lbs in total.. It should have it's impact on flight performance and G's. but ok.. In Any case if 1 pallet weights 200 lbs, 1 empty tank of similar length, cannot weigh 100lbs.. And they add a lot more drag in between the nacelles.

Not sure if this is already known, but in the Stable version I have some odd behavior with the loadout. For brevity A9 is Aim9M A7 is Aim7M A5 is Aim54C P4 is 4 pallets between the nacelles. 1 So I load up 2xA9 + 6x A5 + P4 and 2 bags Loadout shows 7482 lbs worth of weapons Remove 1 A5 from outer mount and that shows 6356 lbs 7482-6356 = 1126 lbs That's what a loose Aim54C weighs according to the loadout screen. Now add 1 A7 and total weight becomes 6982 6982-6356 = So the weight of a loose Aim7M is 626 lbs (same result with aim7F) 2 2xA9 6xA5 4 pallets 2 bags 7482 lbs Now do remove payload on all 4 missiles between the nacelles. That gives me 3375 lbs In the sim there are clearly 4 pallets visible. 3 repeat #2, but choose remove pylon instead Same weight.. but 4 grey crosses. In the sim, the belly is now clean.. No pallets are visible Note, there is no change in total weight either. There's more. If 1 single Aim54 without pallet weighs 1126 lbs on outer pylon. Why am I only seeing a weight reduction of 4107 lbs for 4 Aim54C's That's just not consistent at all. An Aim 54 on a pylon or on a pallet.. the weight of the missile should not change. Yet I have a 397lbs difference.. That's considerable. 4 So I load up 2xA9 + 6x A5 + P4 and 2 bags Loadout shows 7482 lbs worth of weapons Replace all Aim54's with Aim7M (and thus removing the pallets) Just based on basic math from 1&2&3 you would think - 2 loose aim54 2x 1126 lbs - 4 aim54+ not counted pallets or 4107 lbs + 6 loose aim7's 6x626 lbs makes 4879 lbs but instead the loadout screen shows me 4405 lbs we have a discrepancy of about 474 lbs remove 1 center Aim7 total weight is 3898 lbs Center Aim7 weights 507 .. this one is lighter then the one on the outer pylon ! But this is more in line with information online of how much a Sparrow should weigh. Why would there be a difference between the stations they all are made the same and they all need the same kind of cooling and connections. 5 Again start with 2 A9's 2 bags, 4 pallets, 6 A5's Now click remove pylon on station 6 and 3 (front pallets) Don't care bout weight at this point But In the sim I will see 2 Aim54's in the back No pallets up front no pallets in the back Same happens if you do remove pylon on just one station Game automatically removes the adjecent Aim54 and all the pallets. This only happens with station 6 and 3, it doesn't happen if you remove pylon on station 5 & 4 6 Remove all payloads and pylons everything from ALL stations fuel 100% gun 0% fuel 16200 empty 44040 weapons 0 total 60239 Add 1 empty bag fuel 16244 empty 44040 weapons 110 total 60393 Surely an empty tank has no fuel in the lines.. they would have been sucked dry on the previous run. How can it add 44 lbs of fuel + 110 lbs of weapons yet only add 100 lbs to the total weight?? Surely an empty bag and some fuel in the lines(which shouldn't be there) weighs more then 100 lbs?!!??!? That's 4 and a half meters worth of aluminium !! 7 Ran super scientific test with a slick tomcat. 5% fuel 6562 feet 430 kts normandy map start the sim, don't touch any controls engines will run at 97% Tomcat crashed into the sea doing exactly 660 knots Did the same test with 4 pallets Tomcat crashed into the sea doing exactly 660 knots and it took about the same time on both occasions. To me that says the pallets aren't included as drag either.. Jester did not eject on either test , which is odd given that he usually ejects on all other occasions when i'm flying.. I guess this time me not touching the controls gave him false confidence... So summarized 1 Aim 7 on station 8B or 1B is 119 lbs to heavy 2 Aim 54c on Station 8B or 1B is about 100 lbs to heavy 3 removing the pallets is not counted in the total weight. 4 Remove pylon on station 6 or 3 causes in game visible problem with missing pallets and floating missiles on station 4 & 5 5 empty fuel tank adds 44 lbs of fuel weight 110 weapons, but only 100 total weight? To light! 6 Pallets aren't accounted for as drag (or not subtracted from drag if removed, no way to tell for me which)