MaverickF22

Where did you see him pass out at 7G's? Moreover, the fatiqued F-16 Major who blacked out at 8 G's for an unknown amount of time..., the video doesn't show when the 8G run had started to know how much he stayed, who are you trying to foul? Maybe he didn't follow the technique properly, i don't know..., yet it looks by his face that he wasn't made for that and he doesn't like it eighter:P, nomatter if was he a Major or not! Now why don't you prove me why he blacked out at 8G's so quick? Few seconds? Did you even bother to count them? There are 10 seconds that he stayed at 9G for..., so he only needed 5 more, which i'm 100% certain that he did later, after doing the right things!:P This exceptional woman is no exception..., women are known to withstand G forces a bit longer than men, so she would've stayed more than just 15 seconds until passing out, but this still makes no sense in your game..., 15 to 5? There's no Youtube video backing up any FC2 blackout experience:P! Because no active pilot that i've ever seen on Youtube doing a centrifuge test, and believe me i've seen them all..., have ever went out in less than 7 seconds at 9G, NEVER! And i was the first one to show you some videos, that you probably didn't even bother to view, nor even to explain why they could do it and it wasn't impossible for them, but you are doing the same thing using some examples that don't even fit what you say in the end! It's like seing who fouls who or something! I'm not here to foul anyone afterall, i just want to prove that overall, a really trained pilot, not a dummy, a drunken Major or a person who really wasn't phisiologically fit for a flight that day, to be shown as an example for why people get stumbed at 9G's quicker than normal..., those don't look like real fighter pilots, but more like ocasional ones! So for short..., i gave you a video (besides many damn other videos where the pilot can stay at 9G for 15 seconds) which showed that a pilot can stay for longer than 30 damn seconds at 9G, while in the same video, YES, there was a first dummy, who couldn't stand at 7G for more than 6-7 seconds due to an inpractical straining procedure..., so he went to sleep! Afterwards, as the video says, he was reinstructed on how to do it, and he stayed more than double the first time at 7G's with slight light loss..., and then, not to mention the real G'man afterwards who showed and proved what a man can do at 9G! Here's the video again: That's where i've got all my proves from, various real fighter pilots centrifuge trainings..., and those pilots didn't need any STOHL to prove that they all can stay at 9G for that long! Now i know i really shouldn't have talked that much..., but i really want to make sure you have understood it all, or maybe you're just pretending that you do, in order to keep the tremendous G force simulation fail in FC2! And not to forget..., DCS models almost the same shitty blackout from FC2, but a little bit more graphical :P, yet the timings are just the same! What a bummer!

Bahahah..., i can't stop laughing! You pointed the clues even better than me or anyone else here!:megalol: Still, we could only pray that ED will finally train their utterly average, so called "pilots" within the game..., because i can't call it a sim yet!:book: GGTharos..., sorry mate, but it's not the customer's job to find a STOHL chart, which i don't even know what it means..., and i've wasted my time enough already on trying to give you all the minimal needed information in order to make a blackout start developing not quicker than 10 seconds for a fighter pilot, not some average pilot(whatever you mean with that)..., what could be much easier than that? Do you say you can't do that because you don't have a STOHL chart, and for that reason the "sim" will continue to remain just a game because of it? So this leads to nowhere then..., it's only a matter of wanting to make things better, but it seems we have a lack for that!:pilotfly:

Even with the tiniest effort, there should be a lot more seconds before blacking out! Do i really need them that much? ED should do that if they can't put a close enough value from what they could see, that is not my job! And even if nobody has them..., you don't necessarly need a pinpoint value to start working on it or making it at least as close to the real thing by just tweaking the damn values which affect the ammount of seconds before the blackout starts developing at 9G, until you find something which compares a lot closer to reality than just leaving it like that because you have no perfectly accurate data! I gave you some videos of how normal USAF pilots (and normally not just them) are able to withstand 9G for at least 16 seconds, and they were average/regular pilots for this kind of training, not the best..., and yes, they have withstanded that force primarly due to the good procedures training and less due to their body shape..., skinny/fat, whatever, and that's what they are called pilots for! A short person gains not more than 25% more time at 9G before blacking out (if a skinny stands 16 seconds at least..., the short fatty should stay at least 21), than a tall one..., so again, it's not the body as important, as it is the pilot..., and in the sim, we expect to have trained pilots already, so we don't need to set them on a training course with points for training and 9G experience to have them better, because maybe that could complicate the simulator even more, although it could be an interesting aspect for a simulator! So don't tell me that need to simulate in the game, how fed/muscled or tall/short the pilot is in order to make the sim calculate how many seconds sepparate him from the blackout since he was at 9G (rapid onset only)! When you want to do something..., you do it from your heart, not because someone asks you to do it, and you don't waste very much time on perfectioning it in the first phases..., but even if it takes time to set some better values (closer to real +/- 1-2 seconds, because it is impossible to have a REAL value for each individual), you still don't get this kind of crap..., blackout at 9G in 5 seconds!:doh: :bash: Afterall, here it is: a good G tolerance/time graph for a pilot with G-suit!: http://media.wiley.com/mrw_images/compphys/articles/cp040240/image_n/ncp04024014.jpg This is a real 9G pulling pilot: http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cke9D-OPBBM/0.jpg:pilotfly: This is ED's 9G pulling pilot: http://www.aero-news.net/images/content/general/2003/gforce-0303a.jpg

Ok, thanks again, i'll follow it's instructions after it finishes downloading...! Have a good day, Cheers!

Ok, i've got it now, i've only downloaded the wrong stuff..., the version that i've bought is already the latest one and won't require anything else, so as i'm downloading it now..., i will only install it on a different folder (probably) than DCS World's folder where i already have the A-10C installed, with no need for the BS1 installation/activation, and DCS World should recognize it automatically when i launch it (even if they will be in different folders), so i hope it works! Thank you for your time and patience..., and sorry for being such a noob on not looking very careful, so it's my fault for all that i've said...! Cheers!

Sorry for my delay to reply back...! Ok, i understand, but what's the difference then between full version 2 1.2.0(40$) and the Black Shark 2 Upgrade 1.2.0 module (20$) which needs the installation and activation of BS1 (10$) from where i can play the last version on DCS World, if i'm not wrong, or there might still be something that i'm not getting!

What a hell is this? Hi, I've just bought BS2 1.2.0 from E-shop, which is the module for DCS World that took me 40 bucks! I've said: "OK, no problem"..., but hey..., when i want to install it, it asks for the installation and activation of BS1! Are you ****ing kidding me? So now this makes 50 dollars instead of 40 or even 30 as i can see here, so i pay 20 bucks for nothing?:huh: The BS2 seems to be the most controversial product i've seen here..., so watch this again: DCS: Black Shark 2 Upgrade 1.2.0 (English download version) = 20 dollars...! Marked in red: The "DCS: Black Shark 2" upgrade requires "DCS: Black Shark"!, which costs 10 dollars, so 20+10=30:P and i should be able to play the lastest version of BS2 on DCS World, if i'm correct! So i thought..., what a heck..., i buy the next one...:DCS: Black Shark 2 1.2.0 (English download version), which seems complete and has nothing written in red, so by the logic..., it won't need anything else installed before it for this kind of money, even if it takes 10 more dollars for nothing (20+10 no longer does 30, but 40)! And now i'm thinking that i'm in the position where i've paid more and had less...!:doh: Tell me what should i do now...!:joystick: I will pay the damn BS1 also, if you tell me that, that's what i have to do..., but your reputation might be at risk, for not telling the people everything and what are they spending their money on...! So you should, eighter clarify the things better for what all the things do or not do..., or leave only one way of acquiring, activating and playing the last version of Black Shark, not so many..., which lead to a lot of ambiguity! Thank you, i'm waiting for a reply...!:music_whistling:

Blackout for REAL pilots, not untrained monkeys! So, as i can already smell it..., they haven't fixed the idiotically, rapidly developing blackout which occurs in less than 5 seconds when you're at 9G:P! What was that shit in FC2? A counterstrike shooter with airplanes, with user defined rules, where the features create a different reality? The blackout was overall better modelled in FC1 as it took a bit more time to develop, except for the fact that the blackout could occur sooner or later depending if the pilot has already pulled some G's already (so the pilot blacks out sooner if he pulls G's by surprise, and will hold for 1,5 seconds longer if he already pulled some G's, just seconds before, making he's blood flow faster), which is the only good thing simulated for the blackout in FC2:P! If is there anyone out there to contradict me, then you should watch some centrifuge trainings on youtube, or as many as needed until you understand that it shouldn't occur that quick for a trained pilot (at least not under 16 seconds at 9G, at least...), as some pilots, are even able to withstand it for more than 30 seconds at 9G if properly trained...! Here are some videos..., watch them, count the 9G interval seconds and listen to what they have to say: And now here comes the best/beast G withstander..., 30 seconds at 9G at minute 2:07, with no light loss, this one's for you ED: So PLEASE ED..., make that motherf@$#!#% blackout appear only after at least between 10-16 seconds held at 9G, for our fighters in FC3, if this ever claims to be a simulator...! THANK YOU!

Hi! I also have a question, it's not related to a bug now..., i'd only like to ask...: How the **** can you make patriot, hawk or S-300 Sam sites fire a missile at you? Now what a hell? In FC1 you simply put the sam in place, and it knows where to fire and at who..., but now in FC2 you do all the rest and it simply stays like prick and won't fire at all! I've read somewhere that they don't act like mobile sams, and they need some configuration at the targeting section from the sam unit! I don't know if that configuration needs to be done to both launchers and radar units, but it seems that it doesn't do anything anyway to make it launch a damn missile! Sorry that i got angry, but the mother****ing SAM won't fire at anyone! I go up I go down, left and right, and I can't make it fire! It only eats gas and money, it won't fire! The only mother****ing SAM that works is the SA-11 Buk! If is there a list of steps to be done for making those 3 stupid sams shoot, please let it known, cause many of us can't have the joy without those 3! I'm waiting to know what needs to be done! Thanks!

A review of the needed changes to be made,before this ends up into a much worse crap! Although it's an year and a half since i've talked about the exagerated G-force effect and other exagerated missiles accelerations..., now..., before Flaming Cliffs 3 appears and it's still not late to change some things until it becomes even more rubbish than FC2, as it proved already, except for the graphics, cause YEAH, that's the only thing which made me stick to FC2 more and leave the most realistic Lock On so far (the FC 1.12) to roost..., so in the last moment, FC3 should change the bad reputation of some promises that were made about FC2, which proved to be even worse than they were before, there are some important tips that FC3 should respect, otherwise people would start wondering about buying any further Lock On's series anymore!:( Here are the tips that have failed badly in FC2 (and they were told to improve realism, although we have shown that it made it even worse): 1. Make tha damn Gloc(loss of consciousness) occur only after standing at least 15-18 seconds at 9G's, not less, while the light loss initiation should only start at around 11-12 seconds after rapidly reaching 9G. So the tunnel view should last at least 4-6 seconds from the time it is initiated until the blackout occurs,- for a trained pilot-..., unless there is only a drunken monkey set to fly in Lock On (we hope not)! You might wonder where do i know this information from! Well, it came from people who have been through this, and even if there's an error of +/-1 or 2 seconds..., it's still way longer than the crap that we just have in FC2, as for FC1.12 it took a little bit longer to Gloc, and even if it was still too quick, compared to reality..., it was better than FC2!:P:mad: 2. FC2 was announcing some improvements over the flyable aircrats, before it was launched! Well hear this: the F-15, the A-10A and SU-27 have a much unrealistically higher roll rate...! Why? And WOW..., it seems that the best roll rate belongs to the SU-27:P! LOL...! Did you people even try to compare those roll rates to the real ones? I guess not! Because the SU-27 has a worse roll rate than the F-15(both for onset and constant), and both of them should also have it lower than it is atm, while the A-10A should have almost the same roll rate as the SU-33 (or at least "copy and paste" the damn roll rate that you have already optained in DCS A-10C, because it has to be just the same)! And to admit..., only the MIG-29, SU-33 and SU-25's are having their real roll rates, unmodified from FC1.12! So, as a simple conclusion..., again, they were way better modeled in FC1.12!:doh: 3. Another nowhere to go (probably another try for improving realism), is the limitation of visualy sighting ground vehicles above a certain distance...! Well the problem is that in FC1.12 you could see(visually) well contoured/darker ground units that were hard to confuse with the ground colours or other scenery, without any view zooming or FOV changing,by just keeping a decently realistic 60 deg FOV without any zoom, from about 7-10nm away..., which seemed ok, maybe a little far but at least closer to the real life ability to spot ground vehicles from that distance. In FC2 however, it is more realistic in that the contour/vehicle lighting may be easier to confuse with the ground colours/scenery whatever..., but on the other hand, it is way too hard to see any ground unit at all after a short distance(except for the civilian traffic which looks the way it should from high distance), meaning that you have to get as close as 2nm to a ground unit (tank, SAM, etc.) to be able to notice that it's a ground unit! So my suggest is that there is something wrong with the magnification of the vehicles/planes/helicopters in the distance..., because you initially can't see them almost at all(or rather as a pixeled dot on your screen) and then rapidly turn bigger as you get closer. And seriously, there's nothing wrong with my eyes or other people's eyes or resolution setting, which i keep on the highest setting! Now the idea is that there is a little bit of high discrepancy at visual sighting a vehicle in FC1.12 and FC2. In FC1.12 you were probably seeing vehicles further than normal, but in FC2 you barely see them at all and that should not happen in real life. So my question is, why didn't you make the vehicles appear the same way that they do in DCS Black Shark or A-10C? Because there they have the most realistic appearence upon visual sighting or by using the aircraft's TV for targeting, and DCS appeared before the release of FC2...! Why do these discrepancies exist for no reason? I or we, all of the people who play and enjoy this awsome product (in some ways), aren't trying to be so ridiculously pretentious..., but we are all hungered for "REAL" realism, not bullshit, and so it's not the graphics that matter so much..., well yes, they matter too, they make it look better, but common..., the only thing that most of us enjoy is to really have the feeling and know it..., that things are as realistic as they can..., that kind of game/sim would buy all the money, not Tom Clancy's HAWX:P or other crap like that..., but you, the people who are behind this brilliant project! Cheers, and i wish you the very best..., in making this a better sim, and at least, look at some of our advices regarding what real should normally look like!:thumbup:

I didn't get you wrong...! In fact i've overreacted with the name of the thread (and if possible, may have the name of the thread be changed to just "Realism that needs enhance", instead of what it is?)..., but i just wanted to know what happens with these missiles, G effects, etc. Now i understand that this is a way more lot of work than what i think..., so me and everyone else around gathering all kind of questions, are having again the same, and most solid answer...: You are the ones up for the task!;). Thank you very much! Have a good day and an easy work;)! Cheers!

Hi! I've read all that you've said and i'm fairly convinced that you guys deserve all that is good for what you've done with Lock On and DCS! Now I have a better view of all these things and I'd like to Thank You all for the patience of telling me, and to us all, about the hard work that you pay for bringing us a better and better simulator...! It all takes time, and effort, but you guys are the only ones who deserve the best for it!;) Thank you Eagle Dynamics and to all beta testers! Lock On/DCS Forever!:thumbup:

Ok, there was almost nothing to be found about why do the missiles behave that way and that's the reason why i've started the subject...! We didn't know it would be planned in the future! Sorry about that. I understand it now. Thanks for the reply...!

Hi there once again! I know it has the new A-10C and we all thank you guys for what you've done with it, but still, these G's have to be tested with a fighter!;) I just wonder if DCS will give us the possibility to feel the same thing we felt with the Su-25's, KA-50 and now the brand new A-10C advanced flight models, in the F-15 Eagle or Su-27 Flanker!;) I guess that would blow everyone's mind when they'd start playing DCS with an advanced flight model for Eagle, Flanker, Fulcrum perhaps, as that would've been the meant of the game, but we can just wait and dream for them atm untill we'll have them!:D I'm glad i can talk to you guys about this!:thumbup: Thank you and cheers, Mav.

Missile behaviour! Now a second issue, if I may..., is about the missiles, air to air missiles mostly, cause that's what bothers us the most! Every missile has a propellant and some given factors and limitations, somewhat similar to an aircraft, although their aerodynamics might be more complicated at the speeds and sizes of these missiles..., then they are to a fighter for example! But even simplifying things up might still give us a closer look of how a real missile should actually fly...! Every missile has some given factors within which they operate and the principal ones should be lift, drag and thrust..., the gravitational force could somewhat be negated for the speeds at which they travel, but it's very effective when the missiles fly at low speeds! What i'm trying to say about all of this is that at low speeds the missiles should't be maneuverable almost at all(depending on speed) because they cannot attain enough G's in relation with the angle of attack which provides the lift. Aswell when the AOA of the missile increases, the same way should the DRAG increase corespondingly, same as it happens to an aircraft! The thing that mostly hurts is when you watch the missile fired from an aircraft(the same thing applies for the SAM units), is that it almost instanly reaches top speed after being launched and it starts turning instantly even if the speed at which it was fired is eighter 0 or very low...! That doesn't happen in reality! Every missile should have it's own inertia or at least a closely given one that won't allow it to reach from 0 to terminal velocity in 1-2 seconds and simply freeze at top speed just like slamming into a wall and remain at top speed, but the drag is somewhat simulated well when the missile runs out of propellant and decelerates;). Thanks again for reading what i had to say!;) Cheers, Mav.:thumbup:

Thanks for your reply, but I think that even if I wouldn't want to learn that much about an aircraft, thus I persoanlly know enough yet, I'd really appreciate having a better sim! And If you don't mind, i'd like to start with the blackout issue, which has been a long problem since the first Lock On series, and yet, after we've waited for the big change to come in Lock On 2.0..., there's almost no difference at all! I'm sorry if I waste someone's time, as these factors may be more or less known by some..., but let me bring you some details about them...: Notice that everything is about how many G's over a period of time! For the vertical axis G-load: -Instantaneus G factor: 40G(every pilot) for around 0.1 seconds -Sustained G Factor given in seconds: - Untrained pilot: 5G's fo 10-12 seconds - Trained pilot: 9G's for 16-30 seconds -Over 50G's can cause permanent damage or even death, although all these things with sustainable or unsustainable G's have a matter in time..., -HOW MANY G'S, OVER WHAT AMOUNT OF TIME-. For example we can sustain even 100G's on the vertical axis if they last no longer than about 0.05 seconds, and survive with no injuries, but we will blackout and die if we try to sustain even 5G's with a G-suit on, for longer than 2-3 minutes, because the same thing will happen, the brain will finally end up with no blood! It's all a matter of G's/time. For the longitudinal axis G-load(which affect forward accelerating and braking): - Eyeballs in: 17G (time matters less) - Eyeballs out: 12G (time matters less) If you don't mind, here are some videos which can prove at what levels would a normal human blackout, no matter at what level of training is he: And if these guys were better or less better at sustaining 7-9G's, they were all trained for that! Now this is a guy who had almost no training for sustaining a 9G manoeuvre: Although he didn't blackout sooner than 8 seconds -since he reached 9G's until he had it-...! The blackout may not be very easy to simulate as it varries from one pilot to another, but even if you'd try to make an average out of the best and worst pilot who can sustain 9G without blacking out, and that's a matter of how long will he be able to sustain, there should still be a way better value than what we see in Lock On...! I mean there's no way that in real life, even an untrained pilot would blackout at 9G's(sustained) in 3 seconds, as it happens in the game, thus, in the game if you hold the pilot at 8G's he can stay there forever even though it simulates that you have no light in the eyes. The worst one blacks out only after 7-8 seconds at 9G in real life, while the best can sustain 9G for more than 30 seconds EVEN WITHOUT LIGHT LOSS, not to tell that this guy was also talking at the same time o.O...! So these are the levels that a real pilot can reach and that's why i'm saying, that they should be seen someway in the game aswell...! Even if pulling too many G's over time might cause permanent damage to your body, you still don't want to be a dead hemoroid while in a scissors...!;) Don't know about DCS, as we don't have a Fighter aircraft to test it there yet, and i think it's just the same one! I really love Lock On and DCS, that's why i'm asking you guys to make an effort and please bring these factors come to REAL life!;) Thank you ED and to all developers of the team! Best regards, Mav. P.S. Here are two videos which I hope you'll enjoy.: Make this the most realistic air combat simulator that people were ever able to play and you won't regret it when everyone will know what to buy, if they like THE BEST! Cheers!

Hello! I've started this thread with the wish of bringing both Lock On and DCS's realism levels, in a matter of speaking, as closer to reality as possible..., and I hope there would be others who have something to say about it too. Bringing ED's products to the top of realism starts here...! Let's hope we can make Lock On and DCS better!;):thumbup:

Next aircraft/aircrafts that should be upgraded with the Advanced Flight Model! An Advanced Flight Dynamics/Model for the Su-27/33 and F-15 Eagle just as the one for Su-25's and A-10C would be the most beloved and waited step by almost everyone who played the Eagle Dynamics series, from their beggining...! How come that the most beloved aircrafts, for the meaning of Lock On, were left far behind?;) Please bring them to life...! Lock On forever!:thumbup:

Roger that, thanks again mate!;)

Though i wonder what have you meant with: "And to do that, click "options""!;) So is there any way for doing the cobra? Cheers!;)

K, so the cobra's the only thing yet which can't be assigned for any key, though now i see that each plane has it's own available mappings(ex: drogue chute, laser illumination, etc.), that are available only for them when selected from the Controls...! Still the laser illumination seems to work with the default "Shift+O" combination which was used in FC 1.12, that doesn't have a proper mapping here at all(except ELINT, which i don't know yet what it really stands for), so i'll have to keep that in mind! Well, i hope they'll implement the lovely cobra back in..., it may not be too usefull in combat, but when you're doing fancy stuff, it's bit of a pleasure to get on with!:D Thanks mate!;)

Hello everyone...! I'd really like to know if there is any possibility to assign keys within the Controls section from the game options, for Pugachev's Cobra, drogue parachute, laser illumination and maybe other keys that were available in Flaming Clifffs 1.12, and which may need to have the option for being assigned!:book: There is simply no mapping for them in Flaming Cliffs 2, which uses the DCS inerface...!;) Thank you!

Roger..., you've got that right!

Here's what i do: I turn on the engine, after the START VLV goes off i count 65 seconds, afterwards i shut it down and when the N1 shows 10% RPM i press the start button and the engine starts up again! I don't know what did you really mean about that 3 min 20 seconds waiting time for the STARTER turbine to spool down, because you can wait as much as you prefer if you shut the engine down before 65 seconds pass since the START VLV light goes off and it never starts again, thus you can restart it immediately if you wait for at least 65 seconds before shutting down!

Well that's something else to add about this thing...!