[autopilot setup in the OH-58D]

15 hours ago, YoYo said:

So what do you think about current implementation after the release?

I love it. It is the most useful and most intuitive implemented AI-Pilot so far! And your concern of too many buttons - doesn’t bother me at all. I have all the most important flight commands on two 4-hats on my stick. Didn’t even need to use modifiers.

Two things I liked to be changed for the future are purely cosmetic:

- the co-pilot model should at least put his hands on the controls when „flying“

- „some“ kind of instability - even if artificial - would go a long way for immersion. Perhaps a little delayed reaction or random micro (over-) adjustments like a human would do.

 

[OH-58D Announcement]

@Polychop Simulations

First: Congratulations on the module. I love it, it flies great and it will for sure be one of my most used modules in the future.

However: There are some flaws, I‘d wish you could address in the future.

- button bindings, some are missing (important fuzes e.g.), some are weird (try to properly bind a virtual three position switch to a physical one)

- sound design, its somewhat inconsistent. Some switches have a nice click to it, others are complete silent. The volume levels are a bit off in general. Your own Gazelle is much better in that regard.

- when handing over to the AI - at least make your copilot model put his hands on the controls! 

- Personal weapon, please make a virtual camera or view that looks straight along the barrel for 2D users. And maybe have the armor plate swing open per default when operating the personal gun.

- „dead“ buttons and switched. There are too many buttons and switches that are inop for a full fidelity module. Even if they don’t serve a function in game (because the system they operate is not implemented e.g.), at least make them interactive/flipable (like ED does e.g.). It really throws you off when the curser gets yellow when hovering over a switch.

That‘s merely a wish list or suggestion list for future polishing. Doesn’t take away from your accomplishment!

Cheers!

[HOTAS setup]

19 hours ago, Yurgon said:

Check Options -> Gameplay -> Force Feedback and make sure it's off. With the OH-58D this setting can cause the trim to not work when a non-FFB stick is connected. The devs are aware, but I'm not sure if this is something Polychop can fix or if ED needs to do it. Anyway, as soon as you untick that checkbox, it should finally work.

Please keep us updated and let us know if it works.

I think, he is flying the Huey, isn’t he?

Maybe you bound the wrong trim button? In the Huey it is called „Pilot Trimmer“.

[Der OH-58D Kiowa Diskussionsthread]

4 hours ago, wosta said:

habs Momentan auf 110 stehen,bei der KW

Monitor ist 2k

Instrument Auflösung 1024

wenn viel näher rangehe wird es besser ,hab dann aber wennig Sichtfeld nach drausen

 

Jo, dann ist es aber kein Wunder, dass Du Probleme beim ablesen der Instrumente hast! Benutzt Du kein Head-Tracking?

Versuch mal einen realistischeren FOV deutlich unter 90, dann klappt es auch mit den  Instrumenten.

Jedenfalls ist kein Problem des Moduls. Die Instrumente haben nunmal die relative Größe, die sie haben.

[Der OH-58D Kiowa Diskussionsthread]

14 minutes ago, wosta said:

Das einzige was an der Kiowa gut ist ,ist das Flugmodell .Die Ablesbarkeit der Instrumente im Cockpid ist nicht gerade der Hit .

Auch der Motorsound ist sehr mickrig,hört sich nicht nach Heli an ,vorallem aussen sehr Leise .

Ohne Test kauf ich mit Sicherheit kein Modul mehr .

 

Mit welchem FOV (Zoom-Faktor) spielst Du?

[FFB?]

Comparing individual tuning of ffb-effects to playing Ace Combat instead of simulator? Are you serious? 

[Flight Model Review]

21 minutes ago, karasinicoff said:

There are quite number of Youtubers brag ' I used to fly real helo so my opinion is just right, follow me' yeah ? I dont know what you did in the air. I believe actually If you were in Night stoker.

I saw a lot of this kind of manuavers in light chopper as live around farms, tight sharp turn in Nap of the earth flight type with heavy loads.

If you attempt this manuaver in DCS, simply you got crash. Try it. early Gazelle was almost able to do it though.

 

You mean YOU can’t do it.

I saw  youtubers doing incredible things with the Hip and Huey, comparable to the stuff shown in that video.

Also, most people know that flying a helicopter in DCS is actually much harder than in RL - for obvious reasons.

[FFB?]

7 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

That's brilliant, thank you for explaining that. I can now rest assured I haven't made a mistake pre-ordering the VPForce Rhino and that it is (or will be, rather) money well-spent  

I have a DIY (kit) one. Even though I also pre-ordered one. It has a makeshift appearance but it works very well.

And the software is flawless. When you get a little creative you can really make interesting things with it.

E.g. for a custom pedal solution, I didn't want spring force (because choppers). But I wanted a little "notch" to feel where the center is. With some curves inside the VP configurator, I was able to achieve that and tune it just right, so that I can feel it, but it doesn't get in the way of a smooth left to right transition.

[FFB?]

1 hour ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Does it auto-switch based on which module you are flying, or do you have to go in the software to manually load a preset in advance?
Not that it matters a lot, but I'd like to know that in advance.

It auto detects the module when you hop in and you can an effects profile for a group of aircraft (F-14* e.g) or for a very specific one. You can also load different hardware (stick) profiles with each. For example with different spring strength or an offset center point or artificial recentering or whatever....

The beauty is, that other than trackIR e.g. you can happily manipulate everything while you are running the game.

[FM Too Easy?]

30 minutes ago, dahui said:

This video is not a vortex. Its a driveshaft failure

I was about to ask that - because the vertical speed seemed way to small for VRS to develop.

[FFB?]

10 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Yeah, also in DCS the force feedback effects are module to module dependent.

That‘s the beauty of the VP software. It creates its own effects from the DCS telemetry export. You can quickly copy and paste a set of effects from one module to another and even have some that DCS doesn’t offer natively. Granted, I have no personal experience in other FFB software. Just speaking from what I could research and am experiencing right now with VP.

I think that’s my main point. When choosing a FFB device, I would take software at least as much in consideration as hardware.

[FFB?]

12 minutes ago, Gunfreak said:

Brunner is a very compromised product, it can not give as much force as VPForce. And the defualt brunner sofware only works with DCS, MSFS and a few others, but a a year and a half ago, they released a program that lets you change the driver to direcX, which means it works on everything that uses direcX, which is most, so now it works on all flight sims, like Il2 and Cliffs over Dover etc. And if you mostly fly rotor stuff, then the actual force isn't important, since you only need enough for the force trim effect.

Granted, if maximum force is the goal, the VP Rhino is also not the top contender. That would be the FFBeast. But in my opinion the Rhino is strong enough even with a long extension. And from the three the VP has the best software and community support in my opinion.

However, you’re right of course. For helicopters, maximum force isn’t a concern anyway. Tbh, even though I like the FFB in jets like the F1 or F-4E, having realistic force trim in helicopters is the biggest plus for me.

[HOTAS setup]

30 minutes ago, Yurgon said:

Great advice!

However, I never understood the Trim Reset thing. It's purely a DCS feature and has no counterpart in real helicopters. By the time a player has mis-trimmed a helicopter so much as to spin out of control, resetting trim to center is probably going to do as much harm as good.

If it helps players, great! Personally, I've never mapped it and after the first couple of hours in my first DCS chopper (the Ka-50) I didn't feel I needed any trim reset.

Trim, in the other hand, couldn't live without it.

You're right. It's much better to trim your way back to the hover position or neutral position. I have it mapped, but usually only use it on the ground when fiddling around. Airborne it can lead to an "undesired" barrel roll or worse.....

[HOTAS setup]

1 minute ago, Boomer74 said:

Thanks for the quick response. I'll give this a try.

You‘re welcome.

Helicopter flying is fun and very, very rewarding once it clicked. Some choppers are a bit easier to fly than others, but once you get the hang of it - all are fun.

For helicopters you‘re needs in hotas setup differ a bit from fixed wing. If possible, you want a long stick with very light springs. It makes the minute control inputs so much easier. You are probably stuck with what you have right now, but keep that in mind if you consider upgrading at some point.

[HOTAS setup]

You need to bind two buttons that are in every chopper module. Trim and Trim reset.*

When pressed, the virtual stick will keep its position and you can put your physical stick back to center.

It requires a little re-wiring of your brain when you only flew fixed wing so far, but you will  used to it.

There are different flavors (set in the special options tab), like instant trim or „return to center“ (with the latter, the stick will only register inputs after you centered it after trimming). You need to try, which one suits you.

I used „central position trimmer mode“ before I got a FFB stick. 

To keep track of where your cyclic position actual is at any given time it could be helpful to have the controls overlay showing.

 

(*do not confuse with pitch and roll trim that are present in some helicopters as well)

[Click sound or not ?]

1 hour ago, Rifter said:

There is even an expression for that kind of exaggeration, it’s called “creating surrogates for missing sensory impressions”.

Definitely will remember that for future discussions…. 

[Der OH-58D Kiowa Diskussionsthread]

 

51 minutes ago, Nimo said:

Kann es sein das der Rotorsound nicht richtig funktioniert? Irgendwie bisl leise oder bloß mono

 

Ist definitiv anders als in anderen Helos. Ob gut oder schlecht hab ich für mich noch nicht entschieden. Scheint stark abhängig von Geschwindigkeit und AoA zu sein (also der Rotor, nicht der Fahrtwind). Ob realistisch oder nicht, vermag ich nicht zu sagen.

[FM Too Easy?]

Yeah, it is really a mess with skids and ground friction.

Sideways they feel like glued to the ground and rotational there seem to be no friction at all.

Spawn in with slightly off-centered pedals and watch it dance. Not the fault of the KW though.

[Click sound or not ?]

2 hours ago, Rifter said:

Was never aware of that “switches” setting and the possibility to "overrev" it - nice!
Just out of curiosity: You cranked up "switches" and at the same time opted for "hear in helmet" which dampens the sound. I guess the more high-pitched click sounds are not effected by "hear in helmet" too much?

Honestly I just didn’t overthink it so much. My main gripe back then was the barely audible afterburner detent in the F-16. Other than the „realism-fanatics“ I think that sound is an adequate replacement for missing haptic feedback, and since my throttle doesn’t have a physical detent, that was important to me.

Hear like in helmet on the other hand is a) realistic () and b) saves you from hearing damage when you play with headphones….. 

4 hours ago, dggoofy said:

Thanks! That's great. I'm a fool lover of those clicky clicky and as I generally play one bird for severals weeks, it doesn't matter if I have to change the settings.

 

Cheers!

Then you should love the Hip!  (as I do )

[Not so stable?]

1 hour ago, YoYo said:

I'm sure you've never flown in a helicopter in your life if you think that is correct . You are most likely not looking for a challenge and realism, but simple to use and no complications. So, maybe the DCS is a wrong place? I dont know. 

The AI task in this case is to SIMULATE the other crew member, not to make an second "active pause" enabled by the user.  We have active pause alredy in the DCS settings, it looks exaclty the same.  There is nothing like fack drift in real life. KW is additionally controlled only by people, you don't have anything like an auto hover. You might as well say that why an enemy AI swerves and dodges bullets during combat, or why it shoots, is because it's an AI. No, AI is intended to simulate human behavior, not to be 100% perfect in the all cases. 

1 hour ago, YoYo said:

Coming back to the information about recoil, please, see it:

It is clearly visible that the KW lost stability after firing the Hellfire. This is also not modeled.

 

 

I‘m not seeing what you are suggesting. There are shots that shows the Chopper being completely unfazed by the launch and others that seem to introduce some instability. But you don’t know the weather/wind conditions in these shots or if the pilot is operating a switch with the other hand or whatever…..

I don’t think this clip proves anything tbh.

If the launch of rocket from a tube launcher would cause some notable recoil, soldiers operating MANPADS would topple over regularly.

[FM Too Easy?]

I still think, that the Mi-8 has a equally good flight model (at least), but yes - why would a helicopter especially one so heavy (relative to its power) and equipped with a SAS be inherently unstable?

[Aluminium-Konstruktionsprofile (oder Alternativen)]

3 minutes ago, Bishop_DE said:

Nur mal so als Hinweis es gibt das kostenlose Programm MayCAD da sind sämtliche Aluminiumteile enthalten so das man sich schön am PC sein Rig planen kann.

Cooler Tip, danke!

[Click sound or not ?]

1 hour ago, Japo32 said:

but that change will modify the volume of every switch in the rest of aircrafts? if so, I think that is not a good solution unless we are changing constantly depending on use.

Every „switch-like“ sound is effected. Like afterburner detents in some aircraft for example. But don’t get fooled by the high „1200“ value. It doesn’t make switched sound like church bells. It just makes the clicky clicky a bit more audible over the engine and rotor noises.

If I didn’t tell you, and you would just watching me playing, you probably wouldn’t even raise an eyebrow over it.

[VPForce Rhino Clone DIY-Kit for sale]

Hey, I‘d like to chime in, as I bought the Kit from Winger, even though I am capable of 3D-Printing the parts myself.

The Kit is a nice way to get going, for it is complete and completely spares you the hustle to source everything yourself. The printed parts are of good quality, especially the more delicate parts like the gimbal, core and stick connector are of excellent quality.

Even though, in the meantime I have tinkered so much with the Kit and design and replaced half of the parts - I don’t regret paying 500 bucks in the slightest. Building the Kit myself  got me going, gave me a ton of ideas and just a lot of fun.

I‘m currently in the process of building a FFB conversion for my pedals, based on the motor kit from VP and what I learned by assembling the Rhino.

I also doubt, that I could have sourced everything myself for 500 bucks without spending days in researching. 

[Click sound or not ?]

That said - the switches in the KW are still quieter than in a F-16 e.g. .... but when you try them in a cold and dark AC, you can still very clearly hear them.