Kalasnkova74

The War Thunder F-4C is a terribly broken thing, as is the -E which followed.

Sounds like Mikoyan & Gurevich should meet up with McDonnell & Douglas at the flagpole. I’ll bring the camera.

Heatblur’s already laid out the news. They set a date for end of year 2022, and then Something Unpleasant Happened in February 2022. So for totally unforeseen reasons the module is delayed. That’s life, and I’m perfectly OK with that. I’d rather get a fully fleshed out F-4E module in Summer 2023 or later than a buggy mess released to meet an unrealistic deadline. We’ve all seen THAT movie before.

Relax, they’re not dropping the module at 11:59pm GMT. New DCS modules do not have deadlines. When it’s ready, we’ll all know about it.

I’m not sure we are talking about the same aircraft here. The F-4E shot down double digit aircraft in the Middle East , both in Israeli and Iranian service. Then there’s the minor dust up with Saddam Hussein in 1991, where zero Coalition aircraft were lost to SAMs while the F-4G Weasels were on station. Southeast Asia needs no elaboration. If that doesn’t meet your standard of “interesting”, neither do the USN/USMC Phantom IIs. I wouldn’t call the F-4E inflexible either. It is, after all, still in frontline service with Turkey, Iran, Greece, and South Korea. Japan retired theirs just two years ago. Meanwhile, the final US Navy F-4 left for the boneyard before Bill Clinton set foot in the White House.

Just make sure you don’t order pizza if you post it anyway

As it happens, that’s one fight you don’t have to make up: F-14 Tomcat pilot Lt William ‘Bear’ Ferran saw his AIM-7 Sparrow drifting slightly from left to right and then, shortly after motor burn-out, he noticed a fireball inside the translucent diamond projected on his HUD, marking Iranian F-4’s position. Source

Not when it’s unserviceable, which was a problem during initial fielding of the AWG-10 in SEA. In fairness the USAF radar had its issues as well on introduction. Bottom line, the F-4S has neither superior or inferior service history relative to the F-4E. Nor was the F-4E somehow crippled in comparison to the F-4S. Obviously some of the kit is better on the -S; but the F-4E had a gun.

The F-4E hardly “underperformed”. If SEA lends doubt of its capabilities - and I don’t suggest it does - they can be decisively laid to rest with a review of the October 1973 Arab-Israeli war. It’s an excellent case study as the Israelis flew the exact same F-4Es operated by the USAF. Thanks to Operation Nickel Grass , US aircraft were flown directly to Israel as attrition replacements. They put ‘em to capable use, clocking double digit kills with them. Insofar as the mud moving part goes, I’d certainly hope a USAF interdiction bombing wing isn’t being used for close air support! Those are two entirely different missions, skill sets, and operating environments. As evidenced by the Marines’ relatively paltry MiG kill count. Should we conclude USMC F-4 Phantoms were “crippled” for lack of MiG kill stats? I wouldn’t. The F-4S and F-4E are neither more or less capable compared to each other.

wouldn’t be the first time:

would they know? Being a Phanatic I’ve read enough books to know that pre-Linebacker F-4s (both USAF and US Navy) struggled to get good kills because of unreliable weaponry. I doubt a layperson who stumbles onto an ad for an F-4B or USAF F-110/F-4C is going to know this. People generally get upset if the $60+ nonrefundable download doesn’t actually work. Again, responding with “yeah we know you can’t hit anything in Cold War multiplayer with your F-4C but thems the breaks because history” isn’t going to fly

That’s probably the release date of the video, rather than the F-4E module.

I’d love to see these variants, but I’m not sure Heatblur has the resources to tackle these. Due to the different engines /avionics in the UK variants, unique avionics / missiles in the Japanese ones, and the same for variants like the Greek AUP , German ICE and Turkish Terminator modeling these Phantoms basically means starting over. Not necessarily from Square 1 , but pretty close to it vs the US variants. Same problem with the later Israeli Kurnass variants.

I hope so. While I love the notion of flying a period correct VF-74 F-4H-1 , the grim fact is that particular cake needed more time in the oven. The radar , Sparrows and Sidewinders of the era were practically useless in a tactical fight. It would not be a fun experience for people to buy, download, configure and play such a module only to experience a 10% kill probability in air combat. It’s just asking for thousands of unhappy customers and bug reports. It’s unlikely they’ll be consoled with “well, that’s how bad it was in real life”. The F-4J or S solved those problems, and is substantially less likely to leave customers feeling ripped off.

We all share your frustration. Truth is there’s no good answer they can give. If they issue a statement and don’t give an ETA, they’ll be roasted for the delay and lack of ETA. If they don’t issue a statement they’re roasted for lack of transparency. When it comes to good DCS modules , we should approach these projects just like their real world equivalents. The F-4E, F-15, F-16, Su-27, Su-57, basically every tactical fighter jet fielded in the last fifty years (save the Mig-28) had overruns and delays. An accurate representation of these aircraft will experience similar levels of delays and complications.

There’s two points to note. First, maneuverability is not necessarily correlated with wartime kill performance. Tactics, roles, training, and assignments count for a lot more. Kill stats are not correlated with airframe performance or capability. Take for example that the USAF F-4Es were mainly tasked with air to ground missions in Linebacker, replacing the departed F-105s. The USAF reserved the air to air MIGCAP mission for F-4Ds flown by well trained aviators & equipped with Combat Tree IFF interrogators. Obviously pilots ordered to engage enemy aircraft will log more kills then ones whose job is “bomb this target and go home”. Further, US naval crews enjoyed a situational awareness advantage over their USAF counterparts. The North Vietnamese opposition knew well in advance when USAF strike packages were coming and from what direction. They planned accordingly. But US Navy Phantoms could enter North Vietnam from any direction on the compass, which drastically cut their GCI’s capability to vector MiGs for a hit and run pass. USN Phantoms were also not as fuel limited, which meant more engagement time vs USAF crews who had to balance kill opportunities with the pragmatic need to save fuel for flying hundreds of miles over hostile territory before reaching home base. So, all that is to say that the F-4E’s kill statistics have no bearing on perceived superiority vs the F-4J.

Given the challenges 2022 offered , it’s fair to say they are not going to make a Dec 2022 deadline. So be it. Just like the airplanes they’re modeled after, delays and overruns are inevitable for a quality DCS product. When it’s ready, it’ll come. I’d rather get a finished product in December 2023 then a rushed release at 11:58pm December 31st that’s a buggy mess.

I think the trouble with an F-4G is you need a human to run the APR suite- and a human on the ground to work the IADS for a challenge. What made the Wild Weasel F-4G work was the expert in the back dueling with the savvy SAM operator(s) who’d change freqs, shut down and illuminate on a different frequency, and other shifty tactics. On second thought, DCS would honestly need a distinct “Electronic Combat” mode to enable players to pick being SAM operators or Wild Weasel / SEAD. It would give planes like the F-4G, E/A-6A and E/A-6B, Tornado ECR and others a place to shine. As is right now I’m not sure an EW/SEAD platform fits the game.