Endy

It seems it's very hard to put a finger on the cause. People freeze in different aircraft, doing totally different things. And this might cause multiplayer to die out because interest in bigger organized multiplayer sessions (like the ones we would like to play 20+ players)...For me it's the biggest game breaker right now and the biggest problem for organized groups and multiplayer sessions. What worries me additonally is that if the cause can't be easily identified (no logs, nothing) then the fix will be very hard to make... I really hope this issue is known to ED and they're working to identify teh cause and fix it...

Ok, it seems more people with the same issues posted here: http://www.forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=97953 Also, the crash logs from the sessions we played: And: Only got 1 log from 28th and I had 6-7 freezes that session, all within 2 - 2.5 hours. I am not sure though if it's the log showing the freeze issue and connected to something else entirely as it seems most freezes don't leave any kind of crash log. The game doesn't crash as such but stops responding forcing ending the task using task manager. If anyone can provide logs or confirm they even have such after this issue it'd be nice. I don't know what else I can paste here but I hope this issue is being acknowledged and it would be awesome if one of the testers or ED staff acknowledged the existance of the problem and that it's being worked upon. I'm not counting on a miracle fix right this moment but I would love to know that the issue is being noticed at all... Thanks!

Did any of the testers have similar issues? Is this problem acknowledged by ED?

Any of you guys who experienced freezes during one of these missions should post in this topic: http://www.forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=98403 The issue has been reported by other people as well, appears to be a problem with online games that came with 7286. The more people post, the more known we make the issue and the more we complain, the better chance we have the issue will be fixed :)

I hope ED are aware of this. It seems to have appeared with 1.2.2.7286 version during our sessions and persists through 7570. At first we thought it only affected FC3 clients but KA-50 and SU-25 pilots got it as well. Same story every time, suddenly a few people out of the server population get a freeze and need to close the client via task manager. Happened 6-7 times to me during a 3 hour session, and it was similar for other people I played with. This is a major game breaker for any multiplayer activity right now.

This seems a relatively new problem for a lot of people, most of the material on the forums is about straight crashes. Moreover, in multiplayer games people are getting it simultaneously, a few at a time, without crashing the server. Some people are unaffected while others just freeze midflight forcing ctrl+alt+del. This is a very serious issue, effectively killing larger multiplayer games and difficult to prove with any logs.

Ok, found it: put them on their own lines after the last } ie - Globally This will assist on the CTD caused by client disconnects - they will simply never Client Timeout. If you edit the file again after playing, please note that these lines may have been placed elsewhere by the sim in the .cfg file but they will still be global commands - ie, not encased - {}

Someone advised me the following for crashes: add the following lines to your network.cfg file in Saved games: idle_timeout = 0 game_timeout = 0 I don't know if it helps or not but it's worth giving a try i guess. I'm also not sure where to add it exactly, need to check :P

Yeah i've looked into othe threads but they're mostly about crashes/straight CTD's rather than just multiple clients freezing at the same time and forcing and ctrl+alt+del to kill the process. Found one thread with similar symptoms though but was wondering if the thing is pretty common or not in larger multiplayer games and if there's any fix or workaround. Or perhaps even just known cause. This information I could not find hence the post.

I don't really have more arguments apart from what I said so I'll leave it at that. PS. off boresight capabilities of R73 are still limited, it's not exactly look at it and fire. You still need to lock the target, it's just that you can do it at a wider angle that AIM9 because of helmet mounted aiming display. I see where you're coming from with the Aim9 because you probably don't see yours hitting much. I'll just say that shooting any missile at the target in front aspect doesn't have a high chance of connecting. Or a target which is moving away from you very fast. PS2 Spreading apart could work if Greg reworked placing of units in the editor. The way they're placed now (6 or 8 units in a squad) - you can't spread them apart sufficiently using CA controls. You can't move individual units around using map view, just whole squads, the way they were placed on the map, for example 6 tanks moving as a squad etc. Changing formations doesn't not work well enough.

Now that's a hyperbole. You can limit some munitions, doesn't have to be all, please don't exaggerate. I know you do it for the sake of winning the argument but it is simply not a valid point. I already told you that some missiles are banned (Aim120, R77, R27ET). Does it mean we're digfighting with guns only? No. It just means we dropped some weapons because we thought they would not fit the scenario and would not be fun for any side. No A10 pilot would like to play if they were easily shot down by active missiles or medium range IR missiles with no indication of lock or tracking signal. As you can see, some weapons can be sacrificed in a scenario for the sake of gameplay and I think the same should happen to CBUs. It would imo make for a better gameplay, seeing how whole groups of units just disappeared after their use. Anyway, Greg has the same data as we do. He can analyze it himself I guess if some weapon is wanted or not.

Ah, and we also dropped R27ET. With this medium range IR missile you would also have no indication it's tracking you, can be launchaed using IRST lock, not radar. So as you see we droped quite a few different weapons, both sides to make the mission more enjoyable. And one mroe question. Is CBU really necessary for you to have fun if the scenario is balanced in other areas, i.e. units, air defences, other weapons etc? @mwd2 Good idea. Perhaps limiting player number to 10 per side would help. It's definately worth checking out in at least one mission. Perhaps it would make the mission more stable or perhaps it wouldn't... And there wouldn't be player count imbalance.

It's already been decided we drop AIM120 or R77. This is a concession from both sides. Otherwise A10 and Su25 planes would be slaughtered by the dozens because they wouldn't even know they've been launched on until the missile is close... FC3 planes on both sides are making this concession easily, losing their most powerful weapons, because it's more fun and less overpowered if we just use semi active missiles. I don't really see your point about R73, it can be pretty easily dodged if you pop some flares... And if i'm in range of R73 i'm also in range of your Aim9, pretty even imo and both missiles are easy to fool. I don't understand why you defend CBUs so much really. I'll ask you this, you really don't think a bomb like that is too powerful in these missions? I'm just asking you to please take a look at ACMI file from last mission. As for freezes, from watching the tacview it seems to be related to when somebody joins the server and enters cockip. Not sure though.

The gun runs can achieve similar results but they take a bit more effort and are more dangerous than just finding a group with TGP and dropping one bomb. I'm not saying the disconnects were connected to CBU's. From watching tacview there is no direct correlation between the two so i'm not trying to put the blame on them. Look, I'm not trying to take out CBU's just for the fun of it. And I don't like arguing with you because I really have no grudge, I don't want you to be offended and this discussion can become very heated again apparently... Maybe it was this mission only but please, try to review the recording once again. Perhaps you will see my point. I know what you're trying to say about no red presence in the area but anyway, please just watch it again and perhaps you'll see what I mean.

Ok,from my point of view it looks different, you can also ask Greg how his units were slaughtered :) And I can't agree you barely achieved mission goals, I think blue side killed most of the opposition and won comfortably, you can consult Greg on that. Anyway, I'm not trying to make the blue side not be able to kill units, trust me, I'm trying to do the opposite. This is why most tanks were removed and there are mostly softer targets now. This is also why we removed most manpads, to make it easier for A10s...I was trying to make the units easier to kill with other weapons, normal bombs, guns etc. So that there is no need to use CBUs. I am just in general against CBU's because they kill to easy and I feel they're not really needed. Just look what Sandman did with his gun on Tacview :) Sorry, I just don't like them. One thing is that there is nothing comparable on the red side but in general, I just dislike weapons which can kill 6-8 units in one button push.

We were getting the same yesterday in the multiplayer campaign we're playing. Multiple clients getting freezes at the same time, forcing a ctrl+alt+del to close the client. Funnily enough, it concerns FC3, KA-50 and CA clients mostly. A10s seemed to be ok. We have no idea what the cause is but it's very annoying and breaks many multiplayer game attempts.

Yesterday, during a larger sized multiplayer mission (20-25 people) we experienced a lot of crashes due to client freezing and then needing to be closed because it was not responding anymore. I can't provide any logs but the fact it was experienced by multiple pilots at the same time (mostly FC3 and KA-50 pilots, also CA commander) was a bit strange. Funnily enough, the A10 pilots who flew with us experienced no such problems. The server was stable though and did not crash as such during the whole session. It just seems there is some client problem in joint sessions... Did anyone else experience something similar during multpiplayer sessions? Once again, the client just suddenly freezes for multiple people at the same time forcing them to close the game.

Also, I'd like to come back to the discussion about CBU's. On Tacview you can see whole groups of red units annihilated by the bomblets and I think that made the blue task very easy as well. You can see it especially on the northern road, whole groups just disappearing after one dropped bomb. KA-50 pilots left with pretty much one hour to go. And even earlier it was difficult for them to do much due to blue air superiority in the area - not only fighters, but an overwhelming number of A10's as well. That's why I think red side needs more people, Su-25 and KA-50 pilots to be more effective and provide some opposition to blue. Otherwise it's a walk in the park for the blue side.

The freeze/crash issues were terrible for FC3 and KA-50 guys on our side. That;'s why we lost most people and in the end it was me and Greg lol (I think Talos as well for some time) against quite a few A10s. Anyway, we need to try to rework the mission from scratch and see if we can get rid of stability issues. That''s the main problem for now. And I seriously think Su-25 and KA-50 guys should be all on red side. I know some probably want to play blue but it's for the sake of balance between player numbers. Red seems to be way less popular for some reason which makes the event not as fun for both sides. I'll try to watch the Tacview and see if I have any other insight but for not the main issue imo was stability...

Oh, didn't even notice the external views and good, I don't think F15 pilots used them as well. But I fully agree they should not be enabled. The biggest problem for me were the freeze/crash issues. It seems to be related with FC3 and this is the main reason we could not compete and provide air cover for our side...Sorry guys but I had 6-7 disconnects due to that and Trooph just gae up at some point.

The missions so far did not force any settings apart from F10 and external views, so hopefully we have the proper settings as Greg did not mess with scenes so far and rightly so. Good find though :) I just wish the game was stable without all the voodoo we have to do, avoid this, avoid that, don't use the ladder in A10 or you CTD etc :) Btw guys, please remember about connection settings, everyone should have it set to LAN - this goes especially to the new people since you may not know this yet.

Yes, I take part in regular BMS events as well, but what bothers me in BMS is the graphics you mentioned. Don't misunderstand me, I play a lot of older games with worse graphics, but what bothers me in particular in Falcon is the difficulty of judging distance or altitude due to blurry textures and old engine. I sometimes find myself a bit disoriented due to that and my situational awareness suffers. It might be my problem but I heard a few people say the same. There is also some strange stuff going on with aircraft visibility and LOD models in the distance. Also, the dogfighting part in BMS is a bit...strange I'd say. The AI seems to be a bit passive and moves like in tar. It's all a bit like slow motion. Not to mention AI's evasion capabilities for missiles are, well, let's say not the best. So in many regards DCS feels way more natural and realistic, not only in graphics department. But Falcon is a good sim too, with good flight model, well modeled weapon systems etc. and the definite advantage it has it the dynamic campaign, I hope we will get something similar in DCS someday :)

I strongly believe you'll manage to connect this time :)

Please sign Trooph for SU-27 as well.

The problem is, I think it's impossible to differentiate between different users. What I mean is, in a multiplayer scenario it should be possible to set the option to map only for all users except the ground commander for example. Currently it is impossible for only the ground commander to have "fog of war" and the rest map only. If that is possible and I just don't see the proper option please correct me as I'd love to be able to do that :)