USARStarkey

The calculated graph shows 440mph. Read the Report Text.

That was not the sort of variation we were discussing. We were referring to minute differences between specific air frames and changes in performance due to wear and polishing etc.

Right, and I mentioned those differences in passing. The thing is though, we dont have those variations in a sim. I dont jump out of one plane and into another one that is faster or slower by 10mph. That is why the baseline performance is so important. And as a note, in that first test the plane is flying WITH wing racks, and is still going over 440mph. Second, whether or not i can maintain perfect level flight in combat is irrelevant. The 190D is extremely hard to fly level, even when trimmed, and the mere 5mph advantage it has on the deck is enough to escape the mustang given it starts out far enough to not be gunned down as it makes its escape. This absolutely matters. Also it seems rather contradictory to spend all this time and money trying to make PFM's just to disregard any performance discrepancies as meaningless. Also why is the AI faster?

I matched the charts as best as I could tell. Radiator set to auto, but I did not have the wings racks, which only would have detracted anyhow. I was lighter, but about 200lbs, again a bonus. Ammo was loaded, as in tests.

Temp was the default in DCS, which is like 5 C higher than a standard day. Also, your chart shows 61inches not 67. Is there one for WEP? Also regarding tests there also differences in air-frames etc: no two planes are the same. That being said, The worst speed quoted for the 51D is 437mph. The variations in the tests are the reason I posted more than one data point. As best I can tell, The Dora in game is running about where the Green Line is. This is why this matters, as it makes a difference in the relative performance of the planes, even if the difference is only 2%. Someone one here earlier stated that 5% was a good standard for sims, which is crazy, as for a plane like the 51 or 109K that would be a +-20mph difference. When the other DCS WW2 planes are added this will be even more critical. The top speed of the 109K is about 441mph. Ive also seen it quoted at 445, and 442. Getting a +- 2-3% bump will matter, regard its performance relative to other planes. Same goes for the P-47 etc. Also why is the AI capable of going 10mph faster at 28k? I know its SFM, but In straight level flight they should be performing almost identically no? At the very least the AI shouldn't being getting higher MP.

This is a repeat/update of a previous thread. This one is intended to be definitive. Right now in game the Best level speed attainable with the Mustang is 430mph. You should be able to hit about 440, or 442. The worst speed Ive ever seen listed for the D model was 437 at 24,000ft. Manifold Pressure of 67" is non sustainable past 24,700ft. IRL, it could be maintained to 26k. The Manual, both DCS and real, states 28000ft as the altitude where 67" can no longer be sustained. The AI can reach 440mph at 28000ft at 61inches. I cannot even sustain 61inches at that height, much less hit 440mph. I can barely hold 425mph. I have included tracks on this. I know my flying isnt perfect, so feel free to test yourself. The Following is Real Life data on the P-51D-With Wing Racks. speed run.trk speed run24000.trk speed run26000.trk

F15

It cant even get to its actual top speed. The thing get just barely hit 429mph at best alt-24k. It should be getting about 440mph at that or 26k.

Ive shot a Pheonix past 360,000ft.

I adjusted climb angle to be higher because the airplane was still accelerating, so not a zoom.

Wait a minute, why is the CDo so high? The mustang had a CDo of .0163.

Upon referencing actual flight tests, 430mph is possible. However, I cant get the 51 to go to its historical speeds. It is much easier to keep the pony level and I cant get past 430mph at at altitude, and Ive tried everything from 20k up to 30k. I would have expected to get about 440-442 somewhere between 24k and 28k but It wont go past 430mph in sustained level flight. The AI on the other hand, can get 440mph at 28,000. I have tried chasing the AI, and I cant keep up. Ok, engine boost thing solved. So what is the explanation for the 1000fpm too high climb?

My OP was phrased somewhat as a question for a reason. Do your own tests and see what you get.

hardly

So how finished is the Dora exactly? What boost is this thing supposed to have according to ED? I was under the impression it was supposed to be B4 + MW50 at 1.8 ata. So why is it that you can get 1.93ata? I've seen this several times now around 14-16k. It also seems as though the Dora can clock in at 430+mph in level flight all the way from 13k to 26k, and thats just the altitudes I've tested. It is very hard to test level flight in the Dora, because of the poor trimming ability. If someone else out there has a steadier hand, have at it. Next is the climb rate. I was able to achieve over 5500 ft per minute. At one point, I hit 5800. The Dora had a historical rate of climb of about 4300fpm. This thing is doing nearly 6000. This was at FULL fuel, starting at 135 knots 150ft off the ground and ACCELERATING into the climb. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N59oFcjEpLU&feature=youtube_gdata dora 1.9.trk

Poll in interest for High Alt spawn server. Please do not comment. Just vote.

Id love to do more testing, but I need someone to fly with me! My previous tester got bored. PM me if you are down. Also note to pilum: Notice how in some tracks it just ends before the plane dies? That is because I quit whenever i noticed the plane was done. If anything in the airplane critical to flying died, I quite. In no case is the plane dead and just soaking up more hits.

Right. Because it should take 130 hits to down a airplane statistically....against a non-maneuvering target. As for Il2, the 50s are quite a bit more lethal than in DCS in the latest il2 patches. Do you really not think the cold war era F-15 would not have self-sealing fuel tanks? Are you serious? The engines being at the rear has nothing to do with it. many of those Eagles went down due to wings being taken right off without hardly pulling the trigger.

In the meantime can we do another event in parallel so we dont have to wait on the first on to end?

for lols. f15 damage model 2-E.trk

Here are the tracks as requested sith. Human piloted 190s. 190 damage model 1-E.trk 190 damage model 2-E.trk 190 damage model 3-E.trk 190 damage model4-E.trk 190 damage model5-E.trk 190 damage model6-E.trk 190 damage model7-E.trk 190 damage model8-E.trk 190 damage model9-E.trk 190 damage model10-E.trk 190 damage model11-E.trk 190 damage model12-E.trk 190 damage model13-E.trk 190 damage model14-E.trk 190 damage model15-E.trk 190 damage model16-E.trk 190 damage model17-E.trk 190 damage model18-E.trk 190 damage model19-E.trk 190 damage model20-E.trk

My aim is just fine thank you, the patronizing remark wasn't needed. And you shouldnt have to sniper to death every airplane. The Sniper like abilities of the AI are not realistic for a human being to do consistently, and therefore do not reflect real life human gunnery, and are not relevant when adjusting the damage model. Also, I shot at the F-15 in tiny squirts to keep the number of hits low. I killed in in 40, so my gunnery has nothing to do with it.

1 second amounts to 80 rounds. As has already be established, that is not usually enough for a kill. It is also not likely that all 80 rounds hit. Which means I will need quite a few one second bursts. What should be happening is a one second burst that lands perhaps 20-30 hits and destroys that target on average. Which isnt what normally happens. This makes it insanely hard to hill aircraft using BNZ, because you have very brief windows to shoot, and its more or less impossible to consistently land 80-100 hits in one singular burst, or even 2. Gun camera footage, pilot accounts, the doctrines of the various air-forces, various website databases, and even cursory comparisons to other sims make it clear that DCS's WW2 fighter damage model is far too tough. Go shoot an F-15 in DCS with the P-51. The F-15 supposedly has a sophisticated DMG model according to its page. You can cripple/kill a eagle with a fraction of the rounds needed to down a human ww2 fighter right now, and that's a plane that is many times the size of a 51 or 190, and far more structurally sound.

Thanks. I was referring to the 50cals and 20mm's being more powerful, hence taking less hits to kill. If this becomes more realistic is will go from difficult, to near impossible to climb from someone at slow speeds, as you wont be able to shrug off all the damage.

I used tacview, which has been stated before. I also verified it against DCS's report, which appears if you are the host.