kojdog

This has definitely improved as of 6/24/2020. I played the plane and, while I can't say it's 100% realistic because I don't know, it's 100% more alive than it was when I made these comments. I believe some contradictory comments that the magnitudes and moments may not be correct, I at least believe that some factors that were previously absent are now accounted for. Again, neither an expert or CEII pilot (just a student pilot) this is far more dynamic now than when I made my original post. Thanks for putting in the work, M3!

The last Open Beta update made it so the VR mod's shadows.hlsl (Bazar/shaders/deferred/) causes black trees. Just delete this file out of the mod. I use the 'Lite' version so other files from the main VR mod may also cause issues at this point. You can try searching for the 'Lite' version, deleting the shadows.hlsl from that, and then proceeding.

Probably weird to reply to your own thread, unprompted, but I came across something called Vortex Lift. I've added something to the top of the original post along with a link that has some information in plain English. It's worth mentioning because I wonder if that's what the bizarre cones in the ED Hornet image are.

In addition to the above, you can enable the English cockpit and still use the metric gauges: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3419244&postcount=1 From my brief experience with 'Kursant' so far, the metric gauges are a must. This way you can have your cake and eat it too as far as the cockpit goes.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3303288/ Not tooting my own horn; still Kegetys' work... This was inspiration

EDIT 2/10/2019 I've become aware of something called vortex lift that has drastically different characteristics than what's discussed below. It's generally present in sharp delta wings but can also be generated by other means (strakes, etc). Curiously, the most composed answer I can find about this phenomenon is Stackexchange answer - The FAA and NASA have failed to give me a good article to link for you: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/21069/what-is-vortex-lift It's possible this is what is being shown by ED's Hornet image with the Madonna cones. REASON FOR POSTING We'll soon be getting Wake Turbulence/Wingtip Vortex effects in DCS! I'm thrilled, but had a small concern about the perfect cone shaped structures illustrated in the news letter. I understand those are likely approximations of the funnel but the way they extended off the aircraft is what got me thinking about this. So, this post is to try and get some information in front of people so we're all working from correct perceptions of what this phenomenon is. Also, I'm over-caffeinated and have just covered this topic in Flight School, so I'm probably a little overzealous. I also understand that this was one tiny screenshot and may not be showing even a portion of what they're calculating to create the effect. I also understand that the cones are an approximation and I do not expect to see swirling tornadoes being calculated in some complex Navier-Stokes w/ Viscosity method because this isn't Digital Fluids Simulator. I'm sure they'll get a satisfactory product once they call it 'done'. That said, the picture in question: EVIDENCE PRESENTED There's an FAA circulated document on the topic that wonderfully illustrates the nature and 'shape' of these vortices and also shows that a cone coming directly off the rear of the plane, in the same flight path, may not be desirable. Also, the positioning of the vortices is an important aspect to capturing their effect. You can find that publication here (also attached): https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_90-23G.pdf BRIEF SUMMARY FOR REFRESHING KNOWLEDGE "VORTEX GENERATION. Lift is generated by the creation of a pressure differential over the wing surfaces. The lowest pressure occurs over the upper wing surface and the highest pressure under the wing. This pressure differential triggers the rollup of the airflow aft of the wing resulting in swirling air masses trailing downstream of the wing. After the rollup is complete, the wake consists of two counter-rotating cylindrical vortices" PRIMARY CONCERNS ILLUSTRATED The point of all this is illustrated in the following images from that document - VORTEX DESCENT: As seen in the image, the vortices from an aircraft's wingtip descend from the airplane and do not extend linearly in the path of the airplane's travel. To quote the document - "at higher altitude the vortices from large aircraft sink at a rate of several hundred feet per minute (fpm), slowing their descent and diminishing in strength with time and distance behind the wake-generating aircraft". Unfortunately they didn't offer any handle rule-of-thumb descent rate for these vortices but the description would lead me to expect a natural logarithmic decay relative to the environment (and I have no idea what I'm talking about :huh:). VORTEX POSITION: The issue in this case is with the positioning of the Vortex funnels inboard of the wingtips in DCS' image. The below quote from the document (emphasis mine) is the reason I've included this section - "VORTEX CIRCULATION. The vortex circulation is outward, upward, and around the wing tips when viewed from either ahead or behind the aircraft. Tests with large aircraft have shown that the vortices remain spaced slightly less than a wingspan apart, drifting with the wind at altitudes greater than a wingspan from the ground" I would think the funnels should be positioned more outboard from the fuselage and perhaps narrower. In large aircraft, according to the document, the vortices are primarily within the wingspan of the generating aircraft. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This is really what I wanted to put out for discussion/thought. The below part is just candy. Thanks for your time if anyone decided to stick around and read (and especially if thanks if you read the document; we all learn something and are a better people for it! :smartass:) I would also love to be corrected/educated by anyone who has the knowledge... this post is almost a cry-for-help for knowledge from knowledgeable people. If you do choose to be generous with your time, then thank you in advance! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ VORTEX AND WIND/GROUND: The preceding three images all illustrate what happens to the vortices near the ground but also show the effects of crosswinds. This is probably beyond what DCS should try to model but it's food for thought. It's probably better if I let the FAA speak for their own images: "WIND. A crosswind will decrease the lateral movement of the upwind vortex and increase the movement of the downwind vortex. Thus, a light wind with a cross-runway component of 1 to 5 knots (depending on conditions) could result in the upwind vortex remaining in the touchdown zone (TDZ) for a period of time and hasten the drift of the downwind vortex away from the runway (possibly toward an adjacent runway if one exists). Similarly, a tailwind condition can move the vortices of the preceding aircraft forward into the final approach and TDZ. A light quartering tailwind requires maximum caution, as it presents a worst case scenario where a wake vortex could more likely be present along the final approach and TDZ." "LATERAL MOVEMENT. When the vortices of large aircraft sink close to the ground (within 100 to 200 feet), they tend to move laterally over the ground at a speed of 2 or 3 knots at an altitude of slightly less than one-half the wingspan" AC_90-23G.pdf

FM Changes for 30-1-19 I think they made some flight model changes for 30-1-19 :thumbup: Or I'm just crazy... I haven't had much time to test but there appears to be a tendency to yaw with roll that varies with airspeed. Great job team! For folks who've been enjoying this bird while she's WiP, it might be a good time to hop back in and do some retesting!

Since you seem to have studied this thing and obviously know more about aerobatics, could you help me out with my observations/questions presented here?: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3773259&postcount=8 No need to resurrect that post but curious about your own knowledge and observations re the topics touched on. Thanks!

CEII Flight Modelling EDIT: I would LOVE to be corrected in any of the areas below (for the love of aviation and learning) if somebody has the expertise and is willing to be generous with their time! First: I love my CEII and thanks to M3 for bringing it to DCS. And to clarify, I've quoted Victory205 not to disagree with him but because it's the essence of the point I want to try and make. There are a number of physical effects that are peculiar to the way the CEII is modelled in DCS. I'm just a student pilot who likes physics so I'm not a credible expert, however, there are physical effects at play in prop airplanes that are not readily apparent in the CEII. I understand and appreciate that we're WIP and the dev's have a real CEII driver to talk to; But, I think the SME's comments need to be taken in context and understood that they are made in relative reference to the SME's own body of experience (ie flying real prop planes, not drawing comparisons to other DCS flight models). I also understand that the dev's have had to carefully balance getting the 'feel' right for aerobatics while staying within the flight limits of the real CEII and their own simulation flight model... I also understand that tiny changes anywhere threaten to throw the rest of their accomplishments out of balance. All that said, let's start with 'Prop Wash': Set yourself up for takeoff (instant action should work fine) Apply full brakes and increase RPM to 1700 Apply back and forward pressure on the stick while observing The airplane should show some effect of pressing the tail into the ground or lightening depending on the direction of the stick movement. This is an effect present in any prop airplane, even a stationary one, where the propeller wash flows over the elevator surfaces. My source is that I've physically done this in a real Cessna on a real runway. Again, I'm just a student and a Cessna isn't a CEII, but this effect is occurring because the elevator is directly in the flow of air created by the propeller washing over it. While the CEII sits in a tail-dragger configuration and changes the geometry a bit, I would expect some effect of the control surfaces (maybe reversed but still present). To be fair, I don't see any of this effect in either the DCS Spitfire or Mustang so either I don't know something about tail-draggers or this is more than a M3 problem. Next up, 'Torque' (and 'P-Factor' and 'Gyroscopic Precession'.. 'Slipstream' effects may well be peculiar given the bi-plane configuration): Takeoff from above or otherwise enter level power-cruise flight Reach a non-critical altitude (>1000ft) and hold the nose level Reduce throttle to idle (leave prop pitch maxed) and hold nose as speed reduces to ~65 knots Rapidly advance throttle and relieve stick pressure While the CEII becomes roll-unstable nearing the stall, you will notice almost no yawing effect even with rapid throttle advancements and little aerodynamic effect to counter it. I don't have a useful real world example for this yet; However, try the same experiment with the DCS Spitfire or TP-51. At throttle-advance, both planes will enter a sudden left banking turn and potentially roll inverted. All 3 effects would play together in this scenario and apply some yawing forces to any prop aircraft. The CEII is a high-performance plane (big engine for the weight/size) so I don't think the comparison is completely Apples-to-Bananas. I believe rapid onset of torqueing forces, even if not warbird-magnitude, should be apparent in our little bird with the stubby wings. The p-factor at this high AoA (near stall) should amplify the effect. I can't reliably see any effect in-game. 'Adverse Yaw': Enter level power-cruise flight Sharply enter a bank and observe yaw Level off and slow to 90 knots Sharply enter a bank and observe yaw While addressed by the devs, I still want to spell out exactly WHAT is suspicious about the CEII's adverse-yaw tendency. Even in my limited real world, this effect only lightly manifests itself in the Cessna depending on speed. The CEII may also incorporate designs to mitigate the effect - However, the main design-method I'm aware of is balancing aileron drag. The ratio of drag and lift changes depending on velocity so the lack of adverse-yaw at all speeds is suspect. For a DCS example, try a similar profile in the Spitfire or even the L-39. You'll notice a tendency for opposite-yaw from the bank. As the speeds get slower, this effect becomes more and more pronounced. The adverse-yaw effect should not stay constant throughout the bank... the effect should be most pronounced during the moment while the actual ROLL is applied to the aircraft. This is observable in the 2 examples above but not in the CEII. That's all my limited knowledge has so far... I care because I think the CEII is important to DCS. M3's experience is going to color how all GA aircraft are handled in DCS going forward. Getting some of these effects nailed down really helps to bridge the gap between game and simulator. I would also imagine these effects are critical for the extremes experienced while dog-fighting in a prop (looking at you Corsair!). Thank you again so much for bringing the variety and joy of aviation to the forefront in DCS!

Visual Issues Fix First, remove Kegety's Mod then go into the folder where you keep his files. Make any backups if necessary or desired. Delete the following files from Kegety's Mod (only from the Mod, your original DCS equivalents for the files noted below need to be intact): Bazar\shaders\deferred\... ...atmosphere.hlsl ...ResolveDepth.fx Bazar\shaders\enlight\... ...Just DELETE THE WHOLE FOLDER Then, go and delete your shaders as usual. If you still have problems, go into your [DCS Install Directory]\Mods\Terrains\[Terrain Name]\misc\metacache\ and delete the 'DCS' folder you find there (or back it up). Delete all other shaders and try again. This works 100% for me but obviously there are a million variables at play. However, I had the same problem you did and this fixed a number of issues for me while retaining performance. I've asked Kegetys to please post a 'Lite' version so folks like you can enjoy yourselves but, alas, no response. Still, thank you Kegetys!

Useless speculation, however: I believe it will be an air-quake leaning map set up for facilitating competitive MAC play.

Yes, you have the manual - ED is not very good about showing this aspect of their products... it's located here: X:\...\DCS World( OpenBeta)\Mods\aircraft\L-39C\Doc This is your main DCS install, not the one in your User\Saved Games\ folder. Good luck!

First, thank you! I love my 101. However, I did a search for ‘controls’ here and didn’t find a similar thread, so here we go: The issue is around assigning virtually any rotary/dial style control to a button press. This affects Keyboard and HOTAS. Given the lack of discussion it might be just me but I’ve done full repairs, etc. When you assign a button to, for instance, the sight depression 100’s, 10’s, or 1’s: UP sets the control’s value to 0.1 of 1 (1 indicated on dial) DOWN sets the control to 0 of 1 (0 indicated on dial) Consecutive presses of UP or DOWN have no effect (stays at 1 or 0 instead of incrementing up or down). As stated, this is true for all rotaries that I’ve tested. Other examples include the dials on the weapons panel. My understanding from searching here is that the module needs a function in the compiled portion that allows the CW/CCW continuous function of controls. I’ve tried modding the controls myself with no positive impact. I’m guessing this is something on Aviodev’s radar and is ‘in progress’? Thanks again for your wonderful work.

You’re right. Post edited.

If you use his mod, and run a map with fog or haze effects, your screen may end up looking like the first screenshot. You can try this yourself in the previously mentioned Yak-52 Sandstorm Landing, the Mi-8 PG Cold Start, or by experimenting in the mission editor. Kegetys is well aware that his mods may introduce visual defects. This is a hybrid alternative that somebody has already explored for you. By removing some of his mod, you get most of the benefit without the bug that makes some missions unflyable.