DoorMouse

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/history/pastprojects/Phoenix/phoenixmissile.html https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20060004771/downloads/20060004771.pdf Really cool stuff, but they did major surgery on the thing, removed 250lbs, and got a F-15 to yeet the thing from 45,000ft. even then it just barely got Mach 5

ED needs to complete their API and make those features available. The C has things like SAHR Fallback if its loses internal lock that the game literally has no way of doing until ED makes it available. And to be clear, the aim54 in military service never achieved Mach 5 to my knowledge. The NASA tests had a heavily modified AIM54 where they removed the warhead, lightened it, and made other changes in order to get it to get that fast. They also shot it from a platform going Mach 2+ in the first place.

Its really just noticeable in roll. Ill make some videos. Edit -On re-consideration I know what you are talking about with pitch.... its 100% not that. Im telling you- Spend 1 hour in the RIO seat while im flying. you're going to see some weird stuff Double Edit - Also Autopilot on at mach 1.2+ causes bone shattering oscillations in roll. If you disengage it, it will be stuck in FULL roll but you cannot ever get stable again until you slow down, turn on autopilot, and then level out.

I dunno man. you arent my real dad. But yes. If you disengage it WHILE rolling or really JUST AFTER while the autopilot is trying to damp out your movement, then its worse.

I have videos and seem to be able to reproduce it. Playing right now if you wanted to hop in Rio If you just turn on Autopilot to ENGAGE, roll aileron, and then disengage at any point before the nose is 100% stable - your trim and controls are locked at whatever the aircraft was doing when you disengaged.

Please do not shoot the messenger but I've encountered a number of issues which persist or are new in even the first half hour of flying today in this patch: Flipping the autopilot engage switch with no particular mode - Im not sure if this is intended behavior but if you flip the switch it can induce and hold extreme trim (50% aileron/roll) when you disengage it. This seems incredibly dangerous and I doubt the real behavior. Resetting trim once you disengage autopilot seems the most basic of functions... but I could be wrong. Autopilot Engage - Also does not damp oscillations as much as it used to - the previous autopilot would steady the aircraft and actually hold the vector. Now it oscillates and if you disengage it at any point unless you are dead level it will cause said trim issue. Again, not sure if this is Intended but I doubt it. TWSA Weighting - Is, I hate to say it.... almost worse. It does now move the radar cone FASTER to the target but it seems even more confused about what the weighting is. For what its worth - I have yet to have a TMA be inadvertently slewed outside of the radar cone by TWSA. General TWS performance - Targets are still dropping when they are 30 miles away, non maneuvering, and hot (if only to illustrate that otherwise normal TWS conditions are still causing tracks to randomly drop) Especially if they are higher than you it anecdotally seems. Hold Track performance is still broken - Aircraft which are DIRECTLY UNDER the hold track icon will not have a missile go pitbull. Missiles launched in TWS do not initiate a TWS Track sometimes - This persists and is random. have yet to track down how to repeat it but have many video examples Ill work on continuing to compile videos and isolate causes of issues

One of the biggest issues is that TWS Tracks do not correlate properly, and I understand from a game/code perspective its not really possible. In real life the WCS would likely see this all as a single massive radar return and allow you to guide the missiles to target and pitbull in the general vicinity. In game they are 4 discrete targets and because the in-game WCS cannot properly correlate tracks it actually instead forces them to drop, which I'd suggest is the wrong compromise. But even if you get a hold track it will often just not work with its ~3nm work around that was created. Additionally, TWS at any sort of range is a complete gamble due to the issues presented in this thread, TWS weighting issues, Missile RCS causing tracks to diverge, or just general game/network performance. If you aren't going to use TWS then there are not a lot of reliable options. Currently PDSTT with PH active with fallback SAHR is not available, also due to game limitations. your only remaining options are PD STT or PulseSTT. The practical options you have are: PDSTT: which has problems dropping if the target turns to the beam. Even if you stay below them, even with MLC out, even with all sorts of RIO wizardry. Its probably the least reliable mode available, but at least you can re-lock with PAL and hopefully guide it in. Forget trying this at any significant range. PH active of some kind (ACM, PH, or PulseSTT) within ~10 miles - and hope it will start tracking the target (it usually does). Otherwise you just made a big angry sky torpedo, I feel like a submarine commander when I fire in this mode. TWS target size large/normal within <30 miles and hope to God one of the various issues with TWS doesn't spoil your shot. This is currently the most lethal way to use the phoenix due to getting some mid course guidance... which I know is not how it is intended to be used. I've heard all sorts of aircrew interviews that PDSTT was their primary means of engagement... But the limitation not being able to set PH Active on a Pulse Doppler STT make the Phoenix essentially a WVR missile unless you are shooting in TWS. Having a proper Fox 3 with PH Active in PD so you could get mid course guidance and SAHR fallback would be a welcome addition - But I know there is no timeline for that and the current game cannot handle the actual behavior of the missile. As it is now, in multiplayer at least, you can presume 3-4 of your missiles wont ever go Pitbull for various reasons each flight, and you'll need to get within 10 miles and STT or Maddog phoenixes at targets. Just getting the missile to actually go active feels like a magical event, and half the battle of flying the Tomcat.

Anecdotally you'd have to imagine that if the weapon designed to attack and defeat massed bombers attacking a carrier was itself defeated by massed bombers flying in formation towards said carrier- that would be a real design flaw. FWIW I also see this when other aircraft fire missiles and then the track diverges, and inevitably gets trashed. You can trash a TWS shot by just shooting a missile- Sometimes.

Were they actually chaffing and should that really cause this behavior if they are dead hot, High Doppler, and chaff behind them? I would not think this is accurate. I've also seen similar behavior when targets shoot a missile, and the track gets lost because there is now a new contact on top of the other contact.

This constantly happens in PVP but I chalked it up to bad network/player lag/dcs engine struggling... but this is vs AI, so it should be perfect. Granted if they are very close and then split, the radar might have issues identifying single targets, but it should have no problem seeing one massive B52 sized target which is 4 ship of flankers.

It doesnt look like your crank had anything to do with it. 1) did the missile Pitbull on your TID? 2) if Yes, then he dodged it, if no... you didnt hold it long enough.

You can pull quite a bit, but it has limits. It definitely does not handle high impulse, as well as it handles high G if you slowly put it on. Do you have the tacview? https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1410819610 (good example of pretty much the max you can pull and not trash it)

Callsigns..............: Doormouse/WhiteRabbit , Aspen/Dizzy Coalitions.............: Blue / F-14A

Submitting this as its own bug report here, rather than in the feedback thread. This happens not too frequently, but regularly enough. Got lucky getting a clean and obvious example of it in multiplayer without many other variables to cause issues. Aim54 A Mk60. Launched ~M1 @ ~35kft. ~70nmi No manual loft (maybe 1-2 degrees above horizon) Missile climbs to >100kft, never comes down until it is far too late. Track was held till approximately -5 seconds past predicted impact. I have the ACMI attached. I can provide the track file on demand but the ED forums have a 5mb limit. 420th_vs_ETF_Round_2.zip (1).acmi

Edit:(i'll re-submit this with a separate bug report, and attach track files)

Tacview available?

Id love to see this re-created in game. (Edit) apparently its been done, missed that

Missing my point a bit here. Yes I know that if you excessively maneuver widly it will cause your track to turn into a Hold Track. Not what I am asking..... My point is that you dont have to GUESS that the track is not working and that the response IronMike gave was confusing, because presumably the guy in the clip I was referencing EXPLICITLY KNEW if his track was trashed or not. Or is Iron Mike saying that there is some way the track would be trashed and it would not explicitly tell you on the TID that it is somehow not feeding data to the missile any longer. In any case, it doesn't explain why the missile did not correctly start pointing at the target until it was above it. I am surprised that a 12 degree manual loft is "extreme" at a 60+ mile shot.

Wait - You absolutely can move to gimbal limit and go into a proper F-Pole maneuver.... Right? If you break the lock the Radar will tell you by putting an X over the target, so you can maneuver as much as you want and the TID will indicate if it has trashed the lock. Also, even if you manually lofted them shouldn't they know their position and try to steer down earlier? 12* loft angle for a 60 mile shot, and cranking within gimbal limits seems like a perfectly reasonable shot to me.

This is awesome. Thank you very much for the quick turn around on that, as always! Ill continue to try to break things in the meantime

Ohhhhh. Right. So you didn't have to make a separate AHR and SAHR version. Got it.

This is in your internal builds correct - That does not exist in game currently right?

I see. Yes I added the D.... and Damn. That is unfortunate. I hope soon but I realize the game has no concept of a missile changing from a fox1-3 mid flights and that's a core game limitation until someone creates that functionality at ED

So- currently in game can I PH active a PDSTT shot and it will pitbull properly and handover to it's own seeker head at the correct range, or if AWG9 data is lost. And can it fall back to the AWG9 if onboard AHR is lost? My understanding was the game cannot handle the actual mechanics of how the aim54 worked

Any inkling of when we may get this? Not to pile on, but this was the primary firing mode for most aircrews from what I've heard. It's the only way to get a true modern fox3 pdstt mode where it gets guidance (unless you are inside 10 miles) and fallback capabilities. (Added a D, in a very important location)