PoorOldSpike

Incidentally, the game's FSG Molniya's encyclopaedia entry (below) says it's got SAM Strelas but during all my tests it never fired any. And I can't see any Strela launchers on the vessels graphic. I've circled possible suspects, are they Strela launchers? If they are they must be empty-

1- Thanks, yes ED's names are confusing, for example I've abbreviated their 'SM 330 Tor (SA-15 Gauntlet)' to just 'Tor'..:) 2- These tests took me 10 days to do, so regrettably I don't have the time to run more tests with every variable like altitude, different skill settings, different aircraft target types and size, weather, day/night, target aspect and so on or they'd take forever, I'm 72 years old so the 'doomsday clock' is ticking down for me.. 3- thanks, yes i've edited '22 Gatlings' for the Kus into the starter post-

For good measure I might as well include ANTISHIP MISSILES data- Only the following 3 Russian ships carry anti-ship missiles- Shipwreck fired by Pyotr Velikiy: max range 295 nm when manual fired (and 20 nm AI fired) Sandbox fired by Moskva: max range 270 nm when manual fired (and 20 nm AI fired) Moskit fired by Molniya: max range 70 nm when manual fired (and 15 nm AI fired)

Below: SAMs and Gatlings in action Grumble Tor Gecko Tunguska (note the dual Tunguska/ Gatling launchers) Twin Gatlings (note they're attached to the Tunguska launcher) Single Gatling (this one is on the Grisha)

Below: The vessels weapon layouts, Orange = SAMs, Yellow = Gatlings, Green = Anti-ship missiles

I compiled the following test data to help me when creating scenarios, but I may as well also post it here for my popcorn-munching audience bless their little cotton socks. Feel free to give feedback in the form of comments, opinions and the usual death threats etc..:) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Below: the setup for the multiple tests, I pincered each AI Russian ship in turn between incoming AI Hornets (at 2000 feet altitude) and logged what happened. All the ships were average skill and the Hornets were veteran skill- Below: typical firework show, here the Kusnetsov carrier is fighting for its life. Note: there were usually so many SAMs of different types flying at the same time in the tests that it was impossible to log exact hit percentages, but the average was about 30% to 45%.

Hmm...yes I suppose the missile designers know what they're doing because if you can wipe out a ships weaponry with terminal dives you reduce it to a toothless hulk..:)

BTW, why do some anti-ship missiles have a pop-up terminal manoeuvre and dive onto the ships superstructure? Why don't they stay at sea-skimming height all the way so that wave clutter helps mask them from radar, plus they'll smack into the vulnerable side of the hull?

Okay I've just changed the table above to read how many missiles each vessel carries and fires. Note: the Stennis has two RIM-116A boxes but they begin empty and never get loaded.. Note: the Perry fired 12 missiles during the 20-minute tests, that's a very slow rate of fire of almost 2 minutes between each shot, perhaps a sailor has to carry each one up and reload it. There might be more than 12 missiles in the hull that must be carried up. Below: the Perry only has this single SM-2 launcher-

AIR DEFENCE RANKINGS 1- Ticonderoga ranks first, it carries 128 long-range SM-2 SAMs and fires them at a very high rate of fire, and has 2x Gatlings and 2x cannons. 2- Arleigh Burke, its fast-firing SM-2 SAMs perform just as good as the Ticos but it only carries 96, and has 2x Gatlings. 3- The Lincoln is the carrier with the best Air Def weapon mix of 2x RiM-7, 2x RIM-116A, and 3x Gatlings. 4/5/6- Washington, Roosevelt, Truman each have 2x RIM-7's, 2x RIM-116A's and 2x Gatlings. 7- Vinson has 3x RIM-7 boxes but has no RIM-116A boxes, and has 4x Gatlings. 8- Stennis has 2x RIM-7 boxes but its RIM-116A's launchers stay empty. It has 3x Gatlings. 9- Tarawa has 2 x RIM-116A boxes 10- Perry destroyer ranks last because it only has one very slow-firing SM-2 launcher and only 1 Gatling

An SM-2 from Tico takes down an SU-25T A RIM-7 Sea Sparrow launch from a carrier. Note the 8 missile launcher box and the Gatling next to it- A RIM-116A launch from carrier Note the 21 missile launcher box

I ran these tests to give me an idea of how different units perform so that I can use the data when mission building. (Feel free to post comments, observations, death threats, questions etc) USA SHIPS AIR DEFENCES against SU-25T's at 2000 ft altitude Ships skill= Average, SU's skill= Veteran. Both sides under AI control. The best missile is the SM-2 which only the Tico, Burke and Perry have. Hit rate is about 40% below 10nm. Range is about 24nm but very low hit rate at that distance. Next best missile is the RIM-7 Sea Sparrow which the 6 x carriers have, hit rate is about 30% below 10nm. Range is about 14nm but very low hit rate at that distance. 4 of the carriers also have RIM-116A missiles, hit rate is about 40% at or below its max range of about 6nm. The US Fleet- SHIP WEAPON LAYOUTS Note: The Tico's VLS launchers can fire Harpoons AND Tomahawks. The Tom can't be targetted against ships or ground units, we have to target them at a spot on the ground or a spot on the sea and hope the blast kills any unit nearby- The Burke has no anti-ship missiles- The Perry is an old ship, its single SAM/Harpoon launcher has a very slow rate of fire- The Lincoln has the best mix of Air Defence weapons- The next best carriers are the Truman, Roosevelt and Washington, they have the same SAMs as the Lincoln but only 2 Gatlings each. I'd rate the Vinson next because it only has 3x RIM-7 launchers and no RIM-116s, although it does have more Gatlings (4) than any of the other carriers. The Stennis rates last because its two RIM-116A launchers don't work, they stay empty for the whole mission, so it has to rely on just its 2x RIM-7 launchers and 3x Gatlings. Below: typical test setup, I placed blue ships in the middle then overflew them from both sides with groups of unarmed SU-25T's (4 planes per group) and logged how well the ships Air Defences did.. Rapid-fire feeding frenzy of SM-2 launches from Tico (64 missiles in forward VLS launcher and 64 in aft VLS launcher) They usually began firing at about 25 nm range but most missed until the range lessened-

Making singleplayer missions which you can play against the AI is easy and fun, I'm a PC dummy and do it all the time, so if I can do it anybody can..:) You can create small missions in 20 minutes, I don't like big complicated missions anyway. I haven't tried to make multiplayer missions yet, I might try sometime but if it seems too geeky and difficult i'll chicken out of trying..:)

BLUE AIR DEFENCE UNITS vs incoming KH-29T missiles Below: The test setup, I simply placed batches of Blue AD units to face the approaching SU-25T's and ran each test multiple times The SU's begin launching KH-29T TV-guided missiles (the equivalent of the Maverick F)- Only the Roland and Rapier fire at the missiles. The hit% is approx 30% for the Roland, and 10% for the Rapier- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ RED AIR DEF UNITS vs incoming Maverick F missiles Below: the test setup- A Hornet lets fly- Only the Tor fires at the Mavs, with a hit rate of approx 30%- ----------------------------------------------------- Summary: remember the tests were against KH-29T's and Maverick F's, so the hit% might fluctuate against different missile types. And to repeat, NONE of the other units SAMs and guns fired at the incoming missiles, Only the Roland, Rapier and Tor fired. Both sides units were under AI control (Average AD skill and Veteran aircraft skill), I simply sat back munching my popcorn and watching the show, logging on a piece of paper the number of missiles fired and totting up the hit percentages.

I wish I could help, but I'm a PC dummy and FrenchPack is too difficult for me..

Yes there are a zillion variables and other factors that come into play and it'd take me forever to test every permutation, so my tests only give an idea of what happens with specific AD units versus specific aircraft and specific missiles at specific altitudes etc.. For example other variables that spring to mind are chaff / flares and jamming, old or new AD systems and aircraft, types of aircraft or helicopter, crew skill levels, rates of fire, radar aquisition times, day, night, fog etc..

RED AIR DEFENCE UNIT TESTS (Both sides are under AI control) Percentages are the approx hit ratings vs F/A-18 Hornet Lot 20's at 2000 feet altitude. (The AD's are Average skill, the Hornets are Veteran skill) All Hornets popped chaff and sometimes flares. Red numbers are the missiles carried. The guns have almost unlimited rounds. 50% : SA-15 Tor (8) / SA-11 Buk (4) 40% : SA-13 Strela (4) 30% : SA-10 (8) 20% : ZSU-57-2 / Igla-S MANP (3) / Igla MANP (3) 10% : ZU-23 Ural / ZSU-23-4 Shilka / ZU-23 Emplac / ZU-23 closed / SA-9 Strela 1 (4) / SA-2 (1) / SA-6 Kub (3) / SA-3 (4) / SA-8 Osa (6) / SA-19 Tunguska (8 msls +Gun) ----------------------------------------------------------- Below: A couple of eye candy screenshots from the tests- Tor vs Hornet ZU-23 Ural vs Hornet

Ah, but databases are geeky, dry and boring and won't tell us if anything is bugged, whereas my tests are HANDS ON and FUN, and any bugs and glitches will show up.. For example if you're thinking of importing a Thai bride, you can look at her picture and read her stats, but you won't really know how she performs or if she's bugged or glitchy until you actually get your hands on her to give her a good testing out..

Note -In my previous posts I've now changed the 0% hit chance units to 10% to reflect the fact that they might have damaged the target aircraft by putting a few holes in it even if it wasn't actually shot down.

For the record my favourite shortrange Blue AD unit is the Avenger because it fires 8 stingers in quick succession with around a 50% hit rate (below)-

A few dramatic screenshots from the tests- Vulcans hose down an SU and it begins smoking- An SU pops chaff and takes violent evasive action to dodge a Patriot- This SU has had its fin and rudder shot off by a Gepard and is limping back to base- PS- i'll also do Red AD tests over the next few days and post them here too..

VULCAN- poor 10% hit rate and very short range, deploy several to improve hit chances BOFORS- 10% hit rate, put several on the map to improve hit chances FLAK 88- 10% hit rate, its shells are designed to airburst and spray the plane with shrapnel, but you need lots to put up a flak barrage to improve hit chances

STINGER MANPAD- good 40% hit rate but only has a very short range PATRIOT- 30% hit rate, has very long range HAWK- 30% hit rate, good range but its radar is often slow to get a lock LINEBACKER- 30% hit rate, a reliable unit and will fire its cannon at planes when out of missiles GEPARD- 30% hit rate, has big supply of ammo CHAPPARAL- good range but very poor 10% hit rate, it's easily decoyed by flares, place several on map to get better chance of a hit

AVENGER- 50% hit rate, fires 8 missiles in quick succession RAPIER- 50% hit rate, good rate of fire but only has 4 missiles ROLAND- 50% hit rate, good range, carries 10 missiles but radar is slow to get a lock

I did these tests to help me see what's what for when I build my own missions, and I may as well post them here to help anybody else, both sides are under AI control, I just sat watching and munching popcorn.. Below: BLUE AIR DEFENCE UNIT HIT PERCENTAGES vs SU-25T's at 2000 ft altitude (but note they didn't always hold that altitude, as they began zooming, diving and rocking and rolling with evasive manoevres) (The AD's are Average skill, the SU's are Veteran skill) All SU's popped chaff and sometimes flares. I flew waves of SU's over the AD's multiple times and counted how many hits the AD's scored out of 10 shots fired to get the following average hit percentages, but they randomly varied slightly from test to test. (Red numbers are ammo loadouts at start of each test) 50%- Avenger 8 / Rapier 4/ Roland 10 40%- Stinger manpad 3 30%- Patriot 4 / Hawk 3 / Gepard many bursts / Linebacker 4 Llinebacker uses its cannon when out of missiles) 10%-(must place more than 1 on map to have better chances of scoring a hit)- Chapparal 4 / Vulcan many bursts / Bofors many bursts / Flak88 many shots (Post any comments, questions, death threats etc in this thread) --------------------------------------------------------------- Below: these are the current v 2.5.6 American AD units in the game, we can pick up the Gepard and Flak 88 from the German listing. Noob note- with the the Rapier, Hawk, Patriot and Roland you have to place their radars on the map with them (yellow boxes). Below: BLUE AD UNITS