Virtual reality gloves?

yea.. and a virtual **** to **** some bimbos virtual *** off!

any one ever tired a helmet mounted display- if so are they cool or just get you sick>

And yes, you can get sick the firsts weeks while you get used to the stereoscopic graphics and the slightly lagged headtracking, specially if you wear it for too long.

Maybe I'm not getting it right, but, is people who spent hours pretending that they fly things that don't exist, that don't move a cm from where they are no matter how long they are in a cockpit that doesn't exist anywhere but in the condensers of their RAM making fun of computer devices?

Maybe I'm not getting it right

Yeap.. ur getting it right! :thumbup:

What about hooking your home built cockpit to this? :megalol:

http://www.force-dynamics.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRdF0wOBi4w

Look at this video to see how much that thing actually can move. Almost at the end he crashes:

If it would work with flightsims and i had the cash to spend... wouldnt hesitate. :joystick:

you know that would work great with DCS:BS!

Just saw this on the front page of the site: "customized for vehicles, aircraft to tanks."

Time to get the cash then. :)

just out of curiosity, what is the price tag on that thing?

I decided to resurrect this thread after a BBC programme 'Click' I watched the other day.

Basically it continues on from the idea of having virtual user defined zones in the real world to represent a cockpit, without the need for any actual panels or screens (except standard monitor or projector etc).

Imagine having a pair of gloves (including fingers and palm) that are tracked in 6dof. The gloves have haptic feedback devices within them (such technology is being introduced with touchscreens) which trigger in a specific part of the glove e.g finger, when that part of the glove coincides with the part of the real environment the user has defined as a cockpit zone e.g switch. The type of feedback would be different depending on whether a knob or switch is touch, or just a blank panel.

I think this could be a good work around having a real cockpit. Personally I would only be interested in a cockpit if it accurately mimicked the real article. If a software developer is simulating ten airframes, with true to life avionics detail, one can't be expected to build ten cockpits for each airframe. The user could build a generic cockpit for all ten, but for me that detracts from the realism of switches and buttons being placed where they are supposed to be in the real aircraft.

Blaze1

Nevertheless the viability of a solution where no physical limits exist to stop the hands once they arrive to the controls should be tested . Although probably this could be overcome easily by the flexibility of the brain after some training.

What I found most problematic is the highly accurated tracking needed to be able to use a system like this. Jittering and drifting could make the use of the gloves a nightmare. I'm still having a hard time trying to make the computer know where my damned head is with 6DOF (not trackir-like, but 360º 1:1 tracking) and sometimes only gives me frustrating flying experiences.

But I also like the concept of fully virtual cockpits, although stick, throttle (or collective) and rudders is the mininum that should physically exist, of course.

How about this ?

http://smv.unige.ch/members/risoldi/otherdocs/an-infrared-glove-for-the-wiimote-whiteboard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYRjzMQg9kw

Greetings....

Ayup!

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=35202&highlight=Wiimote+glove

Here is my veiw.

1. HMD's (Helmet Mounted Displays)

The problem with these is that they cut you off from the real world. Try

finding a keyboard command with one of these on. Also wieght is a

consideration. You play a game for an extended period that wieght is

going to start hurting your neck. I am sure over time it could do

permenent damage.

2. Motion/IR Gloves

Ok first of lets count out IR. I think we can all agree thats a stupid

idea. I don't want to take my hands off my controls so I can point at

the screen. I realize you have to do that for keyboard commands but it

is alot less distance and less movement. As far as motion tracking gloves

this could work. This is how you would do it. All cockpits basically

consist of 4 panels. Left, Right, Forward, and overhead. Possibly left and

right rear ones as well. You could get that generic shape made out of

say a plastic shell. The controls would be printed on something, like say

those static cling decorations they put on windows. Then you just put

the printed panel in the appropriate place. Now comes the intresting

part. You have a glove that tracks with accelerometers and

communicates through RF like the wii motion controller. You use tracking

software to create a 3d map corresponding to the panels. Once you

have them all mapped for location and distance you can have 3 points

to touch to make sure its calibrated the same way every time. This

would allow you all the controls and a cockpit layout at a very cheap

price. Problem with gloves is sweat and them interfering with using other

controls.

I decided to resurrect this thread after a BBC programme 'Click' I watched the other day.

Basically it continues on from the idea of having virtual user defined zones in the real world to represent a cockpit, without the need for any actual panels or screens (except standard monitor or projector etc).

 

Imagine having a pair of gloves (including fingers and palm) that are tracked in 6dof. The gloves have haptic feedback devices within them (such technology is being introduced with touchscreens) which trigger in a specific part of the glove e.g finger, when that part of the glove coincides with the part of the real environment the user has defined as a cockpit zone e.g switch. The type of feedback would be different depending on whether a knob or switch is touch, or just a blank panel.

 

I think this is could be a good work around having a real cockpit. Personally I would only be interested in a cockpit if it accurately mimiked the real article. If a developed is simulating ten airframes with true to life avionics detail, one can't be expected to build ten cockpits for each airframe. The user could build a generic cockpit for all ten, but for me that detracts from the realism of switches and buttons being where they are supposed to be in the real aircraft.

 

Blaze1

I strongly suspect that such an arrangement, without an accompanying visual depiction of where your hand is in relation to the virtual panels, would not be truly practical for a flight sim such as DCS:Black Shark. Without the visual indexing, the reliance upon the haptics (glove palm bumping your palm, or whatever) would get wearisome, and probably would not be very efficient when you are trying to make things happen in a hurry under stress.

As for flexible multiple use pits, I think the multiple touch screens using TouchBuddy / TouchPal type programs hold the most promise. Somebody made such an arrangement for one of the Falcon variants, and it is quite impressive. He had something like 6 or so of the small 7 inch USB touchscreen displays, an 18.x inch all-in-one touchscreen computer, and I think the main display was around a 22 inch touchscreen, IIRC. He has a thread on these forums that links to more info on it.

Here is my view.

 

1. HMD's (Helmet Mounted Displays)

 

The problem with these is that they cut you off from the real world. Try

finding a keyboard command with one of these on. Also weight is a

consideration. You play a game for an extended period that weight is

going to start hurting your neck. I am sure over time it could do

permanent damage.

I strongly suspect that such an arrangement, without an accompanying visual depiction of where your hand is in relation to the virtual panels, would not be truly practical for a flight sim such as DCS:Black Shark. Without the visual indexing, the reliance upon the haptics (glove palm bumping your palm, or whatever) would get wearisome, and probably would not be very efficient when you are trying to make things happen in a hurry under stress.

But I also have doubts about the viability as I said on the post above.

The touch screens arrangement is also fantastic, and a lot more natural. I like it :thumbup:

average pilot what brand and model are you using?

I strongly suspect that such an arrangement, without an accompanying visual depiction of where your hand is in relation to the virtual panels, would not be truly practical for a flight sim such as DCS:Black Shark. Without the visual indexing, the reliance upon the haptics (glove palm bumping your palm, or whatever) would get wearisome, and probably would not be very efficient when you are trying to make things happen in a hurry under stress.

Hi CyBerkut

The visual depiction of your hand in relation to the panel will appear on screen. The player using a head tracker (TrackIR) will turn his or her head until the on screen 3D panel that is desired is displayed. As they move their real hand, a ghosted image of the pilots hand will follow on screen and this will provide the visual feedback.

Also, after a while, because the position of the cockpit controls relative to the player remain constant, the player will naturally learn where particular switches and knobs are, without having to look. The haptic feedback system should help them isolate individual controls.

Nevertheless the viability of a solution where no physical limits exist to stop the hands once they arrive to the controls should be tested . Although probably this could be overcome easily by the flexibility of the brain after some training.

A simple cockpit could still be setup, but it would only consist of flat panels, to give the player real physical limits to the cockpit. However as you mentioned I believe after a while the player would be able to learn the location of particular controls, especially with the aid of the haptic glove.

But I also like the concept of fully virtual cockpits, although stick, throttle (or collective) and rudders is the mininum that should physically exist, of course.

Yes, stick throttles and rudder hardware should be manditory.:thumbup:

How about this ?

 

http://smv.unige.ch/members/risoldi/otherdocs/an-infrared-glove-for-the-wiimote-whiteboard

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYRjzMQg9kw

 

 

Greetings....

That is a brilliant device. I think the only concern would be that the switch could damage the screen, I think that was mentioned on the wiimote glove thread? This could probably be fixed by using soft switches/buttons, with a fabric covering?

I think you are talking of 80's technology. Mine weights around 200g and I can wear it for hours.

 

The idea precisely is to have a visual reference. The haptic stimulus is an important complement, but secondary.

But I also have doubts about the viability as I said on the post above.

 

The touch screens arrangement is also fantastic, and a lot more natural. I like it :thumbup:

With a simple (blank panel) cockpit the experience would be very similar to using a touchscreen, but should be more natural, as to activate a switch/knob the players hand would actually be positioned in the same relative position as in the real aircraft cockpit.

Because the panels won't contain any electronics they can be of a very simple cheap design. They can also be made to raise, lower or tilt, in order to simulate a variety of cockpits and flight decks.

In addition a sensor mat could be added to the surface of the panels. The sensor mat could be thought of as a large touchpad and is used in conjunction with the glove. As the players glove approaches (and is close to a switch or knob) they will begin to receive some pressure feedback from the glove (This comes from using tracking technology mentioned earlier, so the player will have assigned the 'zones' in which cockpit controls are present and the feedback for the glove will activate as these zones and threshhold are crossed). The closer to the switch the more pressure from the glove (the pressure will be applied to the part of the glove which is closest to switch e.g middle of palm (but more normally a finger)), until a stronger more distinct pressure feedback (when the glove contacts the touchpad mat) will indicate the player is touching a button, switch, knob etc. If the player places the side of their palm across a number of switches, the feedback system will radiate across more points along the side of the palm, to indicate to the player that the side of their hand is in contact with more than one switch. This will allow the player to activate multiple switches with one motion if so desired.

The touchpad mat panel, could have software driven user defined zones, which would allow the user to plot the location of switches, knobs and buttons as they are relative to the pilot in the real aircraft. If a zone is defined as having a switch, the player will be required to move that switch in the correct direction to 'action' it (similar to using the scroll function on a touchpad, but with user defined directions).

In order to actuate a knob, the player must make contact with the touchpad and perform a twisting motion.

The haptic system can also provide differing feedback to enable the player to differentiate between switches, knobs buttons etc, and this can be programmed by the user.

Blaze1:)

Haptic feedback gloves:

http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/product.php?URL_=product_glove_vti_touch&SubCatID_=26

I have put more thought into this and this is the conclusion I have come up with. I don't favor haptic gloves. They would be expensive and sweat would be a real problem. I think this idea is much better. How a shell with space for side panels, front panel, overhead panel, and left and right rear panels. Perhaps the shell can have plastic panels that snap in to change the layout if need be. Like the aircraft may have a vertical and horizonal side panel for instance whereas another might just be vertical. This would be a neat customizable feature. The plastic panels would be blank with a connector on each panel. You could then print control areas on cardboard and put pressure plates on the back of the cardboard. Possibly touch pads for areas where the function would be needed. I dont think a 2 posiion switch needs a touchpad for direction why not just push it. It is the same effect and cheaper. Maybee use touchpads for knobs and multi position switches (like the nav lights on the shark). After you attach the plates and wire chaseways to the board you laminate it. You can have a controller card do all the functions to keep from having to put a circuit card on the control panel. This would have the effect of being customizable, cheap, and having specific cockpit layouts. Once you got the shell it would be alot cheaper cuase then you only need the panel inlays if you switch aircraft. That would keep you from having to wear a device on your body. Also with gloves you would need 2 anyway because if you don't your reaching over yourself to control the opposite panel. If someone was just REALLY dedicated to one aircraft they could always add screens for certain things (shkvall, abris, ) by cutting into the plastic shell and mounting them. Say the panel has abris controls already. It would be easy enouph to sever the wire paths to mount the touchscreen. After all were talking about super thin metal, cardboard, and laminate. They could design them with breakoff points to make mounting easier. Also another cool thing about the shell is you could install speakers to it for surround sound. Do you guys think this would be a workable solution to a poor mans cockpit? Tell me how you would improve it. Tell me problems that it might have.

@ Blaze1

I´m thinking about covering the hole screen withe a plasicglass to save it. Exept the lower frame because of the buttons.

average pilot what brand and model are you using?

Corrections to my post in #63. The gentleman's name is Waxer, and his threads on his 8 touchscreen cockpit are over on the TouchBuddy forum and on his squadron's forum:

http://www.touch-buddy.com/forums/public-chat/1159-over-ambitious-8-screen-tb-project-underway.html

http://www.72ndvfw.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5180

Definitely worth a look.

@ Blaze1

 

I´m thinking about covering the hole screen withe a plasicglass to save it. Exept the lower frame because of the buttons.

Post an update of how you get on with this please:)

BTW, do you think changing the type of switch used may help?