TM Warthog Stiction: Persistant in pitch axis

Dear all,

Most of you with be familiar with the stiction problem that is prevalent in the Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, as the joystick will not move smoothly across its envelope and instead at some points 'stick', necessitating more force to be moved (forward / backward / left / right).

There are a number of suggested solutions for said behaviour, though the one that seems to deliver the best results is (arguably) the method described in this video by FrankenMer Gaming

He describes the use of the Lewmar grease to replace the stock grease and addionally the sanding of various parts for smoother operation.

I have tried to implement the proposed solution and whilst I was able to remove the stiction completely (or reduce it significantly) in the roll (left / right) axis , I still seem to have the stiction issues in the pitch (forward / backward) axis. I have spend upwards of 6 hours today sanding and reapplying grease to the gimbals only to find out it still has this issue in the stick, which obviously meant that putting it together in that condition was not favorable.

Would could be causing these issues? I have sanded the outer gimbal (the lower part) almost completely smooth, the lips that are on there are so small I doubt they could be causing trouble (?).

My guess is that because the roll axis pivots on the articulation sphere, it is providing a bit of damping in that axis which combines with the friction of the ball for smoother movement. Pitch is freely rotating on the ball and completely subject to the quality of the grease, and those are not created equal.

Damping is a property almost non existent unless a grease is specifically formulated for it, like Nyogel 767a. Viscosity does not translate to damping, most 'thick' greases perform very poorly here. Nyogel is expensive and hard to find, but is basically a tube of magic goo that any simmer should have on hand to service peripherals or rebuild them to outperform their stock condition.

However, all that said there *is one other cause of sticktion, and it's sort of easy to test for. The piston that slides up/down on the guide rods sometimes develops a crack in the plastic where the cast-in-place metal part joins it, allowing it to deform under load which in turn makes it ratchet through its range of motion. A really old beater I got off ebay was mystifying me the same as yours until I assembled it without the outer plastic shell on the base.

That allowed me to keenly observe the mechanism through it's entire motion from all sides, allowing me to finally see the otherwise hidden damage because when the part was not under load the crack was invisible.

Either way, pick up some Nyogel 767a, the properties of damping make it behave noticeably better than its stock condition when new.

I have no affiliation with Nye Lubricants other than being continually amazed at how good real damping grease works in my friction mechanisms http://imgur.com/a/ixi64 vs the multitude of others I've tried over the years.

I know the frustration, buddy!

I've taken apart my Warthog probably a dozen times, and spent dozens of hours staring and working on my stiction issue. I too got to where my roll axis was buttery smooth, but it would still hang up on the pitch axis. I eventually got it to an acceptable state where the stiction is almost non existent all the time. Although it seems I sometimes need to just run my joystick through the motions to spread the grease before I hop into the pit.

That being said, I unfortunately could not say what in particular was the problem that was causing the stiction issue on the pitch axis as I would end up trying multiple things when I took it apart in desperate attempts to just solve the problem.

There was two different things I did that I know made a noticeable difference after the sanding and re-greasing was done though:

1. If you haven't tried it yet, I would suggest removing the large centering spring that sits on top of the pressure plate, and use the smaller springs on the bottom in its place and just using it that way for a little while.

Sure the centering isn't as great, but I have found it plenty good enough an never had to use dead-zones or anything afterwards. In my case, the spring was simply putting too much downward pressure on the gimbal and creating unnecessary friction. This by itself made a huge difference.

2. I found that the holes in the white plastic piece that is screwed onto the top of the pressure plate weren't lined up perfectly with the holes in the pressure plate itself so I sanded the holes open a little bit on the white plastic piece. Since it wasn't perfectly aligned, it was rubbing on the poles constantly. This wasn't as big of a problem but it did help a little bit.

Hope this helps you out a bit. If your like me its all you can think about when flying an it takes away a lot of enjoyment. Thankfully I've been able to alleviate the problem over time to where its almost non-existent although I'm sure I'll take it apart again at some point to try and make it perfect.

I know the frustration, buddy!

 

I've taken apart my Warthog probably a dozen times, and spent dozens of hours staring and working on my stiction issue. I too got to where my roll axis was buttery smooth, but it would still hang up on the pitch axis. I eventually got it to an acceptable state where the stiction is almost non existent all the time. Although it seems I sometimes need to just run my joystick through the motions to spread the grease before I hop into the pit.

 

Its at the least comforting to see I am not the only one with this exact issue!

Would it be correct to assume that this problem pertails to the lower gimbal (housing), the part that mounts to the baseplate and holds the other gimbal related parts? The actual gimbal itself seems to be responsible for the roll axis, and as it moves only in one axis, that would mean that the pitch is derived from the two large gimbals (the bottom and top components).

If so I suppose this thing has to be completely smooth, as the only catches I have on them right now with my finger or screwdriver are the small edges around the plugs, though I have to exert some pretty significant force before I can ''catch'' on those.

I have added a video to showcase my problem

Dear all,

 

Most of you with be familiar with the stiction problem that is prevalent in the Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, as the joystick will not move smoothly across its envelope and instead at some points 'stick', necessitating more force to be moved (forward / backward / left / right).

 

There are a number of suggested solutions for said behaviour, though the one that seems to deliver the best results is (arguably) the method described in this video by FrankenMer Gaming

 

He describes the use of the Lewmar grease to replace the stock grease and addionally the sanding of various parts for smoother operation.

 

 

I have tried to implement the proposed solution and whilst I was able to remove the stiction completely (or reduce it significantly) in the roll (left / right) axis , I still seem to have the stiction issues in the pitch (forward / backward) axis. I have spend upwards of 6 hours today sanding and reapplying grease to the gimbals only to find out it still has this issue in the stick, which obviously meant that putting it together in that condition was not favorable.

 

Would could be causing these issues? I have sanded the outer gimbal (the lower part) almost completely smooth, the lips that are on there are so small I doubt they could be causing trouble (?).

I believe your problem comes from the clearance of the sensor magnet pin that goes through the lug in the inner gimbal.

I had this exact problem, and had to clean and sand the hole carefully in order the get the pin to slide smoothly here.

I believe your problem comes from the clearance of the sensor magnet pin that goes through the lug in the inner gimbal.

I had this exact problem, and had to clean and sand the hole carefully in order the get the pin to slide smoothly here.

That's interesting, so you had to sand the rectangular slit/hole on the inner most gimbal that the magnet and wire run through to stop some rubbing? I honestly never really considered that it could be rubbing enough to cause issues. It makes sense though, and pitch is what it would effect. I'll have to take a look at mine next time I take it apart! It doesn't seem like you could do any harm by opening it up a tiny bit just in case.

Would it be correct to assume that this problem pertails to the lower gimbal (housing), the part that mounts to the baseplate and holds the other gimbal related parts?

Yeah, it seems to me that the lower gimbal that mounts to the base plate, or rubbing in the rectangular hole on the inner most gimbal as Sporg mentioned are the only places that could be responsible.

At first, I too focused mainly on and suspected the two pins/plugs, but even after several sessions getting it as smooth as possible I eventually focused on the entirety of the front and back of the lower gimbal. The last time I took it apart I ended up just giving the whole of the lower gimbal another sanding, and even sanded the very top of it where the opening is just in case.

It's a shame we can't get a good look at the inside when its put together to better diagnose where its catching. That's the frustrating part :hmm:

After a lot of grueling work, sanding, cursing and praying to the figher gods today I can happily report that I have succesfully re-greased my TM Warthog stick.

The culprit for the stiction in the pitch axis can indeed be (partially) attributed to the inside of the half-swivel ball and the smoothness relation with the sensor magnet pin. I have sanded down a good portion of the rectangular slot (with that little doodad for the wires) and I was actually surprised to find that there were some pretty big lips in there left from production (no pictures, sorry). There also were some lips present on the edges of the rectangular slot.

I have sanded these down (going through my 400, 800 and 1000 grit sandpapers) so they are now almost completely smooth and the effect was quite noticable in the stick: though there still is some very small stiction effect in the extremes (full forward, backward) the overall operation of the stick is now very smooth in both axis! I am really content with how the stick now operates, it is a shame it has such poor design or at least quality control. Not only the gimbal itself, but also with the pinky switch and the slew sensor.

So, make sure that if you run into the same issue that the stick has stiction in the pitch axis that you sand down the insides of that rectangular slot to (hopefully) alleviate this issue. I cannot say for certain it is the only culprit responsible, but it did make a huge difference for me.

A great many thanks to Bloodwyn and Sporg for helping me with this, thanks guys!

Nice, that's good to hear! :thumbup:

I appreciate the update too as I was curious about sanding the inner most gimbal myself. It seems I read someone recommend doing so on a Reddit post some time ago, but it was the only time I ever saw someone mention it so I didn't take it serious enough. Sometimes it helps to hear more then one person say the same thing. I look forward to checking this out next time I take mine apart in hopes of eliminating the last little bit of stiction I experience at times which has been so elusive.

It really is a shame some customers find themselves having to go through all this trouble trying to solve a mystery to get the performance we rightly expected. I love my Warthog now, but can't hide the disappointment I had for the first year or so I owned it before fixing it myself.

Anyhow, hopefully this thread will compliment the other topics on Warthog stiction, and help someone else out in the future!

Happy flyin!

After a lot of grueling work, sanding, cursing and praying to the figher gods today I can happily report that I have succesfully re-greased my TM Warthog stick.

 

The culprit for the stiction in the pitch axis can indeed be (partially) attributed to the inside of the half-swivel ball and the smoothness relation with the sensor magnet pin. I have sanded down a good portion of the rectangular slot (with that little doodad for the wires) and I was actually surprised to find that there were some pretty big lips in there left from production (no pictures, sorry). There also were some lips present on the edges of the rectangular slot.

 

I have sanded these down (going through my 400, 800 and 1000 grit sandpapers) so they are now almost completely smooth and the effect was quite noticable in the stick: though there still is some very small stiction effect in the extremes (full forward, backward) the overall operation of the stick is now very smooth in both axis! I am really content with how the stick now operates, it is a shame it has such poor design or at least quality control. Not only the gimbal itself, but also with the pinky switch and the slew sensor.

 

So, make sure that if you run into the same issue that the stick has stiction in the pitch axis that you sand down the insides of that rectangular slot to (hopefully) alleviate this issue. I cannot say for certain it is the only culprit responsible, but it did make a huge difference for me.

 

A great many thanks to Bloodwyn and Sporg for helping me with this, thanks guys!

That's good to hear Nanne118, and you are very welcome.

Took me a second disassembly as well to figure this spot out.

I realize we're all do-it-our-selfers, but has Thrustmaster weighed in on this?

My stick is doing it and it's only a month old.

It doesn't sound acceptable from a consumer product perspective.

Just wondering if that bridge has been crossed.

I reckon nowadays anyone who can afford or is willing to spend between 380-500 dollars on a stick alone will go with Vkb and Virpil. What you save moneywise with the Warthog you will have to spend with your time finishing Thrustmasters job. I guess what TM would have to spent on polishing up their gimbal after the molding process would cost maybe equally as much as changing for a "real gimbal". I got a Warthog like a week back knowing full well I would have to open that thing up and getting my hands dirty. That in combination with a proper extension should hopefully provide excellent result (to the day when Vkb builds a dry clutch ffb gimbal!!!). Any place where I can get the Nyogel 767a grease in Germany or at least Europe?

UK source

https://shop.newgatesimms.com/product/nyogel-767a/

UK source

 

https://shop.newgatesimms.com/product/nyogel-767a/

Back in stock in 50g tubes from MicroTools

https://www.micro-tools.com/products/767a-50grt

...cheaper and free shipping through their ebay store: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lubricant-Grease-Nyogel-50g-Tube-/401292936041?epid=13006120232&hash=item5d6eec4369:g:6x0AAOSwol5YzIZc